Fair point Otto! Those guys need to chill... I think by and large, it's fair to say Buddhism hasn't caused any world trouble...unlike Christianity + Islam...
I don't think this is historically accurate. And you guys really should stereotype all Muslims like this anymore than strereotyping that all Christians are like the IRA. Did you guys see where terrorists were pipebombing an elementary school because they were admitting Catholics? Crazy Carzy Crazy. Jeff is right that hate doesn't discriminate and unfortunately it emanates from every corner of the globe, and every religion and ideology.
Aren't the Japanese a majority Buddhists? And what other countries are majority Buddhists? I'll bet you'll find extremes there as well.
Multiple choice. Which of these major world religions has a very large sect that assures your place in "heaven" if you should perish battling The Great Satan, America? A. Quakers B. Protestant Christianity C. Buddhism D. Islam E. Catholic Christianity This terrorism stuff is one thing when it involves geographic neighbors fighting neighbors over land squabbles and cultural domination, but it is ENTIRELY ANOTHER THING when the terrorists come from across the world to strike at you because, IN THEIR MADNESS, they think you are The Great Satan.
I've got a great way to end this "Islamic suicide movement" that seems to be turning out suicide bombers like a factory - use their religion against them. I am personally not religious, so I don't care about where their souls go (although I'm certain they're going to whatever Hell exists). My idea is thus: The guys arrested last night trying to get into JFK and LaGuardia on fake pilot's IDs should be ripped to pieces - arms and legs torn from bodies, along with head and members. Then their bodies should be cut open and stuffed with the innards of a pig. If a muslim dies or is buried with a pig in any part of his body, then he/she cannot go to Heaven. The Israelis use pork-filled bullets on occasion, and they are reportedly very effective in scaring off crowds. These guys are giving their lives up in order to go to Heaven (please research the word "assassin"). Send their souls to hell according to their religion. I would have no problem doing this. Take a picture of all the terrorist's corpses that we recover, stuffed with pig innards, and make a flier out if it with the caption "This will be you if you attack America, and you will go to hell!" (I think that will translate smoothly into Arabic) It could have little pig symbols lining a frame, just to get the message across, since many civilians have problems with details when looking at corpses... They will hate us as much as ever, but no one wants to go to hell.
Treeman that is a great but gruesome idea. It would be interesting to see how they would try to conform their holy text to get around that one!
treeman, islam's laws aren't like that at all. its not like being denied entry to a nightclub if you're wearing slippers (flip-flops). its more like if a muslim eats pork knowing what it is and what it says in the quran. intentionally disobeying allah.
Even if most of them have been released this morning as having been innocent? Thank God some of you aren't calling the shots.
I think that RichRocket is on the right track! Yes people still commit henious crimes in the name of God as vested through their faith, regardless of what it might be. However, the crux of that matter is that in our generation, Muslims have extended beyond regional attacks and dare to attack other continents on a large scale. The Catholic/Protestant skirmishes in Ireland, the infighting in Tibet, the uneasy relationship between India and Pakistan- none of them have resorted to attacking U.S. civilians or another continent, at least on THIS scale. Don't misunderstand my argument.
It just sounds to me like you have something against Muslims. You seem ready to lump them all into one boat instead of taking acts individually. How ignorant.
Isn't the KKK a "Christian" organization? I'm sure blacks in America would call there actions terrorism. Islamic fundamentalist don't have a patent on the idea of terror. BTW-I'm a Christian myself and know that the KKK's actions aren't supported by Christianity as a whole. At times like this, I think we all feel the need to qualify our statements.
Steve Francis, I'm sure the IRA would be bombing the US if England was a 100% dependant country on the US and were using US weapons, US Money to push them off of more land, not just occupy them. There are muslims everywhere from Eastern Europe to Africa to Indonesia to Russia to other Parts of Asia. Now why does an Arab-Israeli/US conflict become a Muslim-Israeli/US conflict?? Do Catholics in South America get stereotyped by the actions of the IRA?? Simple Ignorance......Islam is the SECOND LARGEST religion in this world!! Almost 2 Billion People!!!!!
I could have sworn the IRA has bombed England many times. I could have sworn that in South America kidnapping and terrorism is just as rampant as in the Middle-East. Also lets not forget the senseless violent acts that are committed in our own backyard by our own citizens. Excluding countries involed in war no other country in the world has as high a homicide rate as we do. These people in my opinion are terrorists also. The thing that pisses me off even more is these ****ers that did this were supposedly devote Muslims yet they were seen at a strip club a few nights before drinking liquor. This goes against everything Muslims believe in, not only is drinking against the religion but womanizing is also. I just don't know anymore.
Dr.of Dunk -- please don't call people ignorant in this whole thing. We're trying desperately to understand a culture and a religion that seems entirely foreign to us. All this amidst the fact that this religion (in whatever way) seems to endorse the killings of fellow americans in mass numbers. I do not believe you can make comparisons between modern Christianity and modern Judaism with Islam. We do not see the vast numbers of acts and casualties from those religions that we see from followers of Islam. We see one freak shoot an abortion doctor sometime each year. (there is some misunderstanding that because McVeigh was a white american he was Christian..i never heard him once say he was doing this for Christ -- his were "patriotic" reasons..political reasons entirely..nothing from his theology). We do not see mass organizations of Christians or Jews today conspiring to blow up innocent civilians. I'm sorry, we just don't. I think confusing Christianity and Judaism with Islam is a pretty big mistake. Just my opinion. Let's keep in mind that the day before the world blew up, 300 Muslims right here in Houston were downtown in front of the Alley Theater shouting "Death to Rushdie...Death to Rushdie." These are the same people who the next day tell us that their religion is about peace and that they abhor these acts. The Bible and Torah chronicle huge amounts of sheer, awful violence. The Koran directly commands it to followers today. I've confronted Islamic friends of mine about this, and never got an answer really. It seems largely indefensible. There are specific passages about ravaging infidels after the holy months. I'm sorry, but I don't see peace in this at all. I find it quite contradictory that the same leaders who chant "Death to Rushdie" tell us the next day that they are not about violence. That's very difficult for me to understand. Muslims claim their roots from Ishmael. The Old Testament and the Torah specifically talk about him. Abraham's wife, Sara, could not bear children. She told him that he should sleep with her maid-servant, Hagar,so that he might have a son. He did. Ultimately Sara remarkably became pregnant too. Hagar was cast away out of a sense of jealousy and possesiveness. Keep in mind that the firstborn son would inherit the birthright of the father..particularly important since God promised to make Abraham the father of a great nation upon which God would show favor. Hagar had Ishmael. God said to her, "You are now with child and you will have a son. You shall name him Ishmael, for the Lord has heard of your misery. He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone's hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers." Ultimately God told her he would make 12 tribes out of Ishmael...Genesis chronicles how those 12 tribes spread out to the East. Issac was born to Abraham and Sara and from his line came King David and ultimately, Jesus Christ. I recognize that many of you find the above passages useless. I post them nevertheless. As for terrorism -- In this day and age we can try to be as politically correct as we want to be...we can talk about how we're all really evil. There is no doubt that evil resides in the hearts of men. However....we do not see terrorism on such a broad scale from any other corner of the world. The IRA??? Please!!! How many have they killed in the last 10 years??? Maybe 500 people? They have nowhere near the support or the organization that these Islamic men do. I would be willing to be that Islamic terrorists in the past 20 years have committed more acts of terrorism and have been responsible for more deaths than all others combined. The Israelis are attacked constantly. And as one Israeli woman was quoted as saying the other day, they don't go after strategic military targets...these animals bomb school buses...and nightclubs...and schools. This attack alone may kill upwards of 10-20 thousand people. What we term to be regretable collateral damage here is called a target for those people. Please don't confuse that with modern Christianity or Judaism. My God is defiled constantly everyday. Hell in this country you can throw an icon of my God into a jar of urine and it's accepted as art. We have plays where my God is seen in homosexual relationships with his Apostles. The Christian reaction has been calls from the church to pray for the "artist" to affect a change in his heart...for softer hearts for forgiveness. I went to a church service today that called for prayers for the monsters who committed these heinous, cowardly acts of terror. From the Koran we see a different retribution called for. We see these reactions when we watch men, women and children celebrate the massacre of civilians in the streets of the Middle East. Let me know the next time you see that from Israel when they respond with force to the animalistic attacks upon their civilians. The point is you won't...there is no glory in killing for Jews...there is no glory in killing for Christians. You have to twist scripture to justify it. A plain reading of the Koran seems to call for it and glorifies it. I recognize that my post might offend some....but this isn't the first time I've had conversations with Muslims about this. I'm just one man, but I've never been satisfied with the responses I've gotten from them about these commands for violence and the response of Muslims to questioning of their religion. What I find frightening is that as I post this I realize that it was these kinds of thoughts that drove people to say "Death to Rushdie" just the other day here in Houston. To those of you who would write this off to racism, xenophobia, etc...I don't think you help the problem. If it's about truth and understanding to overcome ignorance, then let's have it. But it's just too easy to label someone who questions these things. You seem to have no problem questioning Christianity...I will not defend the Church of the Middle Ages. What they were preaching is far from what Christ taught. If that's the case here, I'd like to see it. Christians then (and I use the word Christian very loosely there) interpreted very inoccuous (spelling??) passages to justify wading in the blood of both Jews and Muslims in the Holy Land. Given the context of some of these passages, it's nothing short of ridiculous to rely on them to justify killing. Again, the Koran seems to me to be pretty damn plain about calling for violence upon those who deny the prophet Mohammed. I really struggle with that. I think it's far more likely, from what I've read, that the extremists are actually truer to the Koran than those who claim to abhor these acts. That's ultimately wha the author of this thread I think is leaning towards when he titled it "the problem with Islam." Please correct me if I'm wrong...an open honest dialogue is greatly appreciated. At the same time, make no mistake. I would fight and die for the liberties of American Muslims as well as any other groups here. I am friends with more than a few Muslims and have enjoyed knowing them. I'm just concerned with my understanding of this religion at this point.
-For people who think that muslims are the only one causing terrorism around the world and that Christians and Jews or others are rarely involved. -Name me countries where there is overabondance of violence. I can think of three....Afghanistan, Kashmir and Palastine. All happen to be "Muslim" nations. So my point is that to me, Muslims seem to be the target of the world and countries like Israel, India, Russia and in some cases America is to be blamed. This is not a coincidence folks. By the way, Islam would not be the fastest growing religion because of terrorism.
clutch -- could it be because the birth rate is higher in muslim nations than others??? How is the violence in Muslim nations our fault??? Huh??? You lost me there. How about because they rule with fear which breeds violence?? Read the posts about the Taliban's treatment of women here...you'll find it interesting. These people live in constant states of civil war amongst themselves. I don't think you can blame that, in any way, on the US. At some point responsibility has to lie at the feet of those who are ultimately responsible for governing their own nations.
If you don't know something you are ignorant. It's not meant as an insult. Look up the definition. This is what I keep saying. Islam itself does not endorse the killing of Americans. Christians at one point endorsed warring and killing to convert non-believers. Does this make Christianity inherently bad? Of course not.
Now hold on there Mad: Outside of may be afghanistan, these countries are not fighting amongst themselves. Kashmeer is a perfect example. As i understand India and Pakistan were seperated back in late 40's because of two different religions. The decision was made that cities with more muslim population would be a part of Pakistan as i understand. Though pakistan lost couple of states that had overabundance of muslims, it came down to Kashmir which pakistan wanted. Because of some great resources in Kashmeer, India didn't want to give up it up and tried to take over it. Since then they have been fighting. As a matter of fact, pakistan has at many occasions asked india to let the Kashmeeries vote where they wanna go, however India refuses because they know that they will likely lose. Now take America into acount. America still continue to prefer on the side of india more than Pakistan because India is a more powerfull nation. Same goes with Israel. My eyes are not blind but Israel has done there share of bad things to palastine and by the way, is there any doubt that russia was to blame for what was happening in Afghanistan 10 years ago. What is happening there right now is understandable, if they are having a civil war....fine. It's not like we didn't have one. What is worst that we trained these "talibans" and after russia left the war, America just left Afghanistan on there own while promising before to help them with recovery. Remeber it was more than a 10 year war between them. By the way your previous post in which u said that Islam allows voilence. Well i have to say u are wrong. I have many occasions studied the basics of koran and i have never ever read any where that it allows violence. A good example would be that these terrrorists supposedly went to bars and strip clubs regularly. Islam STRONGLY prohibits drinking. As a matter of fact, if u are caught drinking in Saudi Arabia, u could be executed and as i understand that almost all muslim countries don't have strip clubs or even allow pornogrphic videos much less. By the way, i have checked your sentiment that muslims are the fastest growing religion in the world because of more berths. No, the number of people who have became muslims is faster that any other religion. Another good example would be hakeem, is there anything in him that would show voilence to u .
