The principle of Al-Takeyya

Will it force the Outdoor Ch out of business? If so, then please bomb away!

 

This thread is officially pathetic.

 

Giddyup there has been a lot of killing in the name of religion, not only in the name of the islam. the crusades are a good example of this.(i think that the most people killed in the name of a religion was in the name of chritian) Also look at ireland, how many people where there killed in the name of the protestants or the catholic?

I do not believe all these killings are true to what their god wants. those people do not kill because their religion tells them, they kill because they want to, and They use religion as a scape goat.
There is not a single religion that want people to kill, but still people do kill in name of their religion. IMHO it is not the fault of the religion, but of the people doiing it, and it doesn't matter if they are Christian, Islamic, Budhists or jews. So blaming a religion for the terrible things some people do is unfair.

 

so what is your main argument? it's bad to lie? followers of islam lie?

 

So then what is your point in posting the article if you don't even agree with its central theme? Forgive me if I misunderstood, my reading comprehension is pretty low, but the main point of the article is that "Islam allows Muslims to lie during special circumstances (most notably warfare) or even reveres it (citing examples) thus we cannot trust them in our dealings." If you don't even agree with the basic premise of the article (that it's bad that Muslims lie during war), I again ask you, what was your point in posting this? To slander another religion and show the superiority of Christianity?

Surely you're not that ignorant that you're blind to the fact that NUMEROUS deceptive sites exist on the internet in attempts to slander opposing religions. Because its posted under an Arab name, it's now credible? Do you know how easy it would be for someone to berate Christianity in a similar article under the pseudonym 'John Q. Constantinople.'?

Um, you posted an article from an obviously biased source (devoted to slandering Islam), don't agree with it's main premise, admittely have never read the Quran and are unfamiliar with any of the references made in the article, and haven't made any attempt to explain your defense of the contents of the article or why they should hold any ounce of credibility. What other reaction did you expect? The source from the start lacks credibility and you appear either irresponsible in defending it or out to prove some agenda. Why should tigermission's Bible knowledge be pertinent to this discussion? He's not the one posting slanderous articles about a religion while admitting he hasn't even read said religion's text.

So what does this have to do with lying?


BTW, I'm still awaiting your explanation of what YOU garnered from the article.

 

the problem is not their tactics.. US military have been using questionable tactics too.. like taking women and children in exchange for the insurgents to surrender.. torture is definitely going on but everyone is lying about it.. and that is worse because it is an admistration approved policy..

the real problem is we're occupying a country which more and more does not want us there..

 

so you're saying if you're a soldier and you're captured.. you will tell all and sell out other soldiers and your country because you're afraid to lie?

 

So what is your purpose in attempting to find roots of this problem in Islamic teachings? They lied (allegedly) so it's a problem with Islam? Is this a war against Islam, in your opinion? Are there any roots based in Christianity for George W. Bush's lies? He declares that God speaks to him, how is that any different than your claims that Islam is the cause behind this war? Would you not agree that the very reason Bush43 is still in office is due to the Christian Right and their homophobia and bullsh*t family values? Using the same logic you are using, isn't Christianity then responsible for the deaths of thousands of Iraqis?

 

don't you think participants lie during a time of war = They have a well-developed strategy for lying-- especially to an enemy

don't you think everyone has a well-developed strategy for lying-- especially to an enemy??

 

Again, you admitted yourself it's ok to lie during war. How does that constitue a "well developed strategy"?

No, I try to....you know, refrain from using duplicity and trickery when discussing something like religion. You obviously think it's ok though since you continued to defend the claims of this article even when it's agenda was outed in the 2nd post of the thread.

I really don't understand what you're talking about so I can't respond to this. I slandered who and didn't live under what regime? Huh?

Nobody claimed to be an expert. You posted an article and I refuted its claims. You are free to put forth a rebuttal.

Welcome to the real world. You posted an article (from a questionable source I might add) and people disagreed with it and refuted it. Noone's stopping you from posting this or arguing your opinion. You're free to defend your stance without feeling sorry for yourself. You got railed so you blame it on political correctness. How convenient.

 

Articles by Abdullah Al Araby

link


Here's one...


The Bible vs. The Quran

by Abdullah Al Araby

The Quran is the Muslims' Holy Book, the same as is the Bible to Christians, Muslims regard the Quran as the infallible utterance of the Almighty. "Quran" is an Arabic word which means recitation. The name was applied by Mohammed to each individual portion of the Book, but was later used for the whole Book.

Mohammed proclaimed the Quran as the miracle that proved his prophethood. There has been, however, much debate among intellectual Muslims on the issue of the miracle of the Quran. Some Arabic scholars like az-Zamakhshari noted more than one hundred grammatical errors in the Quran.

The Quran is written in Arabic poetic prose. It is divided into 114 surahs or chapters, and contains the religious, social, civil, commercial, military, and legal code of Islam. It also contains stories which occur in the Jewish and Christian Scriptures and Apocrypha.

The Quran, however, contradict the Bible in many of the details of these stories, including some of the names of the people involved. When faced by these contradictions, Muslims justify them by claiming that the Bible must have been altered. Yet in no place in the Quran do we find the Omniscient (knowing everything) Allah pointing out these altered passages of the Bible, or revealing the correct ones. Such a claim can also be disputed by historical evidence, as well as by the Quran itself, which approved of the Bible, and said so repeatedly:

"O ye People of the Book! Believe in what We have (now) revealed, confirming what was (already) with you....." Surah 4:47 (See also Surahs 2:40,41; 2:91; 20:133; 26:192-198; 29:47 & 46:10-12.)

There is enough evidence to support the claim that the Quran may have been tempered with. Nobody knows where the original Quran is. The Quran that we have in our hands now is called the Uthman's Quran, which was collected long after Mohammed's death. Parts of the original Quran must have been lost, after many of the reciters of the Quran died or were killed in battle. Uthman, the third Caliph (successor of Mohammed) gathered what was left of the Quran, arranged it by length of Surahs rather than chronologically, then burned all other existing copies.

The Bible, in the other hand, has stood the test of time. To suggest that the Bible has been altered is against both reason and historic findings.

Neither Christians nor Jews can reasonably be accused of altering their Scriptures. One reason is that they didn't have anything to gain from doing so, and if they did, they wouldn't willingly spill their blood defending it. In the book of Revelation God puts a severe punishment on those who add to or take away, any part of God's Word.

"for I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, if any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." Revelation 22:18&19.

The Jews were also commanded not to commit such a terrible act.

"You shall not add unto the word which I command you neither shall you diminish aught from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord, your God, which I command you." Deuteronomy 4:2

Furthermore, Christians and Jews did not alter their Scriptures based on historic evidence. Many manuscripts of early copies of the Bible were discovered through the years, and were found to match the text we have now. Here are some of these famous manuscript:

The Sinaitic - It was written in the middle of the fourth century, about 270 years before Islam. It contains the whole of the New Testament and a large part of the Old Testament. It is now kept in the British Museum

The Alexandrian - It was written in the early fifth century, more than 200 years before Islam. It contains the whole Bible, except a few pages that have been lost. It is also kept in the British Museum.

The Vatican - It was written in the early fourth century, about 300 years before Islam. It contains the whole Bible. It is now kept in the Vatican Library at Rome.

These and other manuscripts such as Codex Ephraemi and the Dead Sea Scrolls and the thousands of other copies or part of copies of the early Bibles prove beyond doubt that the Bible could not possibly be altered or corrupted.

The Quran contradicts the Bible
Many stories of the Bible that have been recorded in the Quran were misquoted and are contradictory to the Bible. Here are a few: examples:

The story of Cain and Abel
After Cain killed his brother Abel, The Quran says that "God sent a raven who scratched the ground to show him how to hide the shame of his brother." Surah 5:34. This is not mentioned in the Bible.

The story of Noah and the flood

1. The Quran in Surah 11:42 & 43 says that one of the sons of Noah refused to go into the Ark and was drowned in the flood, while the Bible says that all three sons of Noah went into the Ark with him and were saved from the flood (Genesis 7:7).
2. In Surah 11:44 the Quran says that the Ark came to rest on top of mount Judi, While the Bible says that it was Mount Ararat (Genesis 8:4).

The Story of Abraham

1. Abraham's father, according to the Quran, is Azar (Surah 6:74), while the Bible says that his name was Terah (Genesis 11:26).
2. The Quran says Abraham had two sons, the Bible says they were eight
3. The Quran says Abraham lived in the valley of Mecca (Surah 14:37),while the Bible says he lived in Hebron (Genesis 13:18).
4. In the Quran Abraham sacrificed Ismael Surah 37:100-112),while the Bible says it was Isaac (Genesis 22)
5. The Quran says that Abraham had two wives, in the Bible he had three.
6. The Quran says that he built the Kaaba (Surah 2:125-127). The Bible has no record of that.

The story of Moses

1. The Quran states that the one who adopted Moses was Pharaoh's wife (Surah 28:9), While the Bible says it was Pharaoh's daughter (Exodus 2:5)
2. The Quran states that Haman lived in Egypt during Moses' time (Surah 27:4-6), while the Bible says that Haman lived in Persia during King Ahasuerus time (Esther 3:1).

The story of Mary (the mother of Jesus)

1. The Quran states that her brother was Aaron (Surah 19:28), while the Bible says that Aaron lived 1300 years before Mary (Numbers 26:59).
2. That she gave birth to Jesus under a palm tree (Surah 19:13),while the Bible says it was in a stable (Luke 2:7).
3. That Jesus spoke and made miracles at the time he was a baby (Surah 19:24-26). The Bible has no record of that.
4. That Zacharias could not speak for three days (Surah 19:10), while the Bible says he could not speak until the child was born (or for about 9 months) Luke 1:20.

Since the Bible came first, and since there is every reason to believe that the Bible was kept uncorrupted, Muslim theologians have lots of explaining to do with regard to such contradictions in their Book.

link

 

so what do or others should do when you are captured?? not lie??

 

delete