"0 Lord, thou hast deceived me." (Jer. 20:7) "Wilt thou [God] be altogether unto me as a liar?" (Jer. 15:18) "God shall send them strong delusion that they should believe a lie." (2 Thess. 2:11) __________________ From the article I posted on page one clearly Christianity is based the assumption(s) that you can lie your entire life and still go to heaven. How can you giddyup be part of something based on these beliefs? I await your response with bated breath...
Giddy, You see that Kingcheetah has shown clearly how certain parts of a religious text can be taken out of context and made to appear as something that it is not. If you refuse to see that such a tactic isn't possible with Islam like it is with Christianity then it isn't possible to genuinely discuss the issue.
I understand that but there is a living and dying personification of this problem that is actually killing people and has been for about 20-25 years. Let me know if you can point out the Christian component of this same problem. This is not an intellectual criticism but a pragmatic one.
Do you have even an inkling of knowledge regarding the circumstances of Muhammad's migration and the revelation of the Qu'ran? The first 11 years of revelation in Mecca all dealt with spirituality and faith. This was because the Muslims were very few in number and heavily persecuted. It was then upon migration to Medina, in the latter 12 years that the verses primarily dealt with laws and regulations and formation of the state. As far as the prejudice and intolerance you speak of, I have no idea what you are talking about. The first action Muhammad did upon migration was ratifying a peace treaty between the Jews and Arabs of Medinah where they could live together peacefully as one community. Before he arrived, the tribes were engaged in a bloody war. Endorsing violence upon unbelievers? Quranic verses were not revealed all at once, they were revealed individually as a commandment from God to Muhammad during whatever circumstance the community was in. This is just like interpreting a United States military general's command to fire upon the insurgents in Iraq as meaning all Americans want all Iraqis dead. That's obviously not true. Training manuals? So if I go to a KKK meeting, I can get the lowdown on Christianity? You have given evidence of a Muslim leader lying (Sadat), so that means Islam promotes it? Does George W. Bush, the mouth peice of God himself, lying to his own people speak for all of Christianity? If you have genuine questions about Islam, there are much more tactful ways of going about asking them rather than referring to a bogus propoganda article. Feel free to ask, but this is just nonsense, and gives the impression that you don't really want to discuss, but are just implying that Christianity is superior to Islam. I'm not going to resort to taking cheap shots at Christianity because no religion deserves that.
Serbia, various places in Africa, etc. I don't disagree that terrorists are killing innocent people and claiming it is in the name of Islam. That is undeniable. That doesn't mean because someone takes some selective quotes from religious texts and tries to claim those quotes mean the religion is ok with lying, that it is worth discussing. As a Christian I would hate to think that people judged all Christians by what the minority worst of the Christians do. It has been pointed out here repeatedly how many fatwahs have been issued against terrorism, all the different steps that Muslims have taken to weed out the extremists including reporting the perpetrators behind the London bombings years before the bombings happened. Looking at terrorists who misuse a religion for their foul deeds and then taking out of contexts quotes which don't have anything to do with the overall message of that religion doesn't help anything.
I don't get this either. Giddyup makes the Islamic religion out to be so sinister because they lie during war. Oh no, how evil these people are! So are they supposed to completely tell the truth to their enemies to uphold some standard of sainthood (and consequentially be annhilated in the process)? What nation, based on any doctrine, has told the complete truth to their enemy? That would be sheer stupidity. Islam is not a religion of saints. It preaches good works but is based on practicality just like any other religion. This argument is laughable at best.
and we're only talking about lies.. howbout war? what does other religons talk about war? is it okay to wage war? what if a war is waged using a lie?
Arabs and non-Arabs alike are concerned that this faith is being hijacked by extremists.... but you are just peachy with it. Okay. The guy that wrote the piece is not a WASP. I didn't write the piece. I heard terrorism experts discussing this last week and you brainiacs just want to dismiss it because it casts Islam in a bad light but you can't want to cast a shadow over Christianity. We are doomed.
did you read the second post in this thread? your reading comprehension is so low that you qualify for bass fishing link? audio file? or maybe you just heard it in your head.. would those terrorist experts happen to be chirstian fundamentalists? mushroom cloud alert! lets go bomb the middle east!
The irony in this statement above is beyond obvious: "No I never read the Koran (figures, and thanks giddyup for proving my point about ignorant people who have never done their OWN research to seek the 'truth' about anything, and still insist to satisfy their own ignorance and feed their inherent views/bias/dislike of it), but I assume the article is accurate since it fits my preconception of Islam". Yah, apparently that message of 'love' was lost on the bloodiest group of people in history of the world: the 'Christian' Europeans. Go and read their impressive resume of slaughter and mass genocide and mass slavery and racism and colonization, it's impressive! Heck, they even slaughtered one another over the past century alone in the two bloodiest wars in history. Christianity in your opinion is not responsible for those actions by people who claimed to be Christian, and I would be the first person to defend Christianity against the actual history of individuals claiming to be Christians.
Care to argue the points instead of just dishing out ad hominem attacks? From the article: So you make a couple of obscure references to times Muslims have lied, and now we're dealing with the evil, sinister Muslims because it's ok for them to lie. Wow, real fresh. Like I said in my post, had you cared to address it, your entire point is that since Muslims think its ok to lie, we can't trust them. Do you know how ridiculous that sounds? There was no seperation of church and state during the formation of Islamic rule. Why would lying during war circumstances be outlawed? And you act like it's something so shocking... You admittedly haven't read the Quran. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. So what do you do? You don't start a thread genuinely asking questions about a religion like many on this board have done. You post an article from a site devoted to slandering Islam in a "teehee!! look what I found!" manner, when you're not familiar with any of the material it speaks of. It's no surprise that out of the 59 posts in this thread, not a single one is in support of you. And I would appreciate a reply including more than just a sarcastic response this time. YOU posted that article, now YOU tell me what all of that means. Especially the parts about Muhammad.
Does Muhammad like bass fishing? And if he does, does that mean GWB must attack the basses? or the bass fishermen? or OMG both? Inquiring mind want to know.
