The preseason games are more revealing than most think.

Regarding the 2 max contracts point: Yao and Tmac will make as much money combined as Shaq does. Then you can always add solid players with the MLE. Then when Mo gets off the books theres even more money to toss around. Just look at the Mavs and Kings. They each have like 3 guys making max money and then more guys making a lot as well.

 

Charvo you just hit the nail on the head regarding this arguement.

Understanding the fact that Yao being considered a "great" player in this league right now is the simple fact that his greatness is defined as
50% marketing and 50% skills of being a premier BB player.
Like it or not that's how it is. (the so called being overhyped dilenma we're arguing about.

The reason that all these threads have started popping up in bashing Yao -and will continue throughout the season if the Rox stumble-

is in my opinion that Houston is more of a pure BB town.
More specifically, I have a strong impression that Houston supports defining greatness in the sense of pure skills -i.e. the altheticims, raw BB talent and proven track record (ala Hakeem) than considering a player based on the above mix of fame ( marketability) etc and lesser BB talent which unforunately is what Yao is.

In a town like LA with all the flash and dazzle of the entertainment industry their more susceptible in accepting Yao for what he is.
A marketing machine with dashes of great performances.

Many LA fans that demand the pursuit of Yao even the Yao haters want Ming because there he would be considered the "Second" option behind Kobe. Unlike Shaq there will be less power struggles and though Yao is less than Shaq -LA fan's impresssion- Kobe's talent and "leadership will compensate in the end.

there is a genernal consensus from Haters and supporters of acquiring yao in 2006 that Kobe needs a big man behind him to make several runs at a championship but Kobe still being the number one option in which the offense runs through.

In Yao's perpective he is more than happy to play second fiddle.
He never felt comfortable last year being the go to guy in the offense and he (as being blamed right now) doens't show any leadership so far this year -even though we only played 5 preseason games?
The fact that in his own words " it would mean more to him winning an Olympic God Medal for the CNT team than an NBA championship" is another thing to consider that he may never show those leadship qualities and supreme Hall of Famer like qualities like Hakeem that Houston fans so worship.

A Yao trade in the future to LA (when circumstances are right for the ROX) maybe in the mutual best interest of both parties.

LA gets a center with huge (overhyped) Marketing power for the Faker crowds and a marginally better Sabonis or Rik Smits type of center as the second option on the team behind Kobe.
Fakertown will reap greater rewards for having this marketing machine on the team with its connection of being a port city to Asia and the phoniess of their entertainment industry.
Yao will be happy and relieved of not having to be the centerpiece of the team though he will be compensated by reaping greater rewards and endorsments with less critisism in that town than H town for being "what he is".

while

Houston gets Odim and company to back up T-Mac ( while T-mac gets to be the showpiece of the offense) or though some third party trade to get solid players that Houston wants in a Yao trade.
If that doen't work a Yao trade could land alot of high picks for H town and maybe a center that is more atheletic with pure BB skills and less marketing power will come up in future drafts in the mold of Hakeem that ROX can build around T-Mac.

In the end Houston doesn't really benefit to a great extent from a type of player Yao is -unforunately- 50% marketing and 50% BB. Houston is not a port city and dosn't have the type of connections to overseas markets that Yao represents and in my "opinion" Houston doesn't like that kind of attention that some other US cities would in having that type of player. In my impression it's more a an old school BB town where more on PROVEN BB action on the court than the TV media hoopla off the court.

Fakertown would be so inclined and pretty much they don't care for (Yao's diffiencies) they beleive KB will more than compensate.

The only problem of a trade now is matching contracts to get players in return the caliber that Houston wants in such an exchange.
Yao's rookie contract won't get much in return.

 

No Way! Houston's offense is molded around Yao, if your talking about what his outcome could be in the year 2006 and beyond thats a whole different story.

Unless Yao drops SIGNIFICANTLY peformance wise, there is no way the Rockets will trade him

I don't want Yao to be traded, at least not while he is showing promise.

 

My point is Yao isn't ready to be the showpiece of the offense not for a long time.

Either trade him to where he can flourish being a second option or run the offense thru T-Mac until he shows signs that he can be the main scorer to a much higher degree than Smits or Mueresan (Sp)

I don't think H_town has the patience to wait it out while I believe LA will be more than willing to make him the Second Option until he proves otherwise for the better.

 

patlabor1, T-Mac came to Houston because of Yao, what makes you think he will stay if we trade Yao?

As far as I'm concerned, as long as we are winning, I don't give a damn who is the leader.

 

first people here want to trade francis away and they got their wish. Now they want to trade yao away aftere 5 preseason games.... man, luckily u guys are not the GM of the rockets!!!

 

Are you kidding me with this?! Trade Yao?! Look, I understand that he is probably, not quite, as good as hyped but to propose trading him before his third season even starts is ludacris! patlabor1, your claim that he is 50% basketball skill is ridiculous as well. What, because he doesn't preform 360-degree spins and monster dunks on a regular basis, he doesn't have basketball skill? The man has more skill than, AT LEAST, 80% of the league. And no, I am not talking about pure dribbling and shooting, etc. I am talking about all the good intangibles that are missing from today's game. THE true basketball skill showed in the pre-Jordan era. Yao has these natural gifts packaged in one of the most imposing bodies to ever play. Just because he hasn't put up stats of 20/10 YET, doesn't mean he is a failure nor should not receive a max contract. Look back at any game from last season and look beyond the stat sheet, and you will find tons of instances where Yao's play was a big positive on the floor. Whether it be setting the perfect pick for another player, or making a key pass that eventually leads to a good shot, or even moving on defense to make it hard for the other team to make a pass inside, he does alot more than his numbers show. And, patlabor1, you are right. He doesn't care about his stats nor being "the man", but something has to be said about a man of his stature who cares
only of winning and of his teammates. These also go ALONG way.

I think Yao is in a precarious situation with alot of Rockets and NBA fans. When he was drafted, most people just hoped he wouldn't be the second coming of Shawn Bradley and, now that he has shown that he is and will be much more, people have put expectations of greatness on him and are very dissapointed when he hasn't showed this greatness yet. We all knew, when he first stepped on a NBA court for the first time, that it was going to be 3-4 seasons before we really saw how good or how much of a failure he can truely be. He quickly exceeded most of those thoughts and now is in a spot where people bash him for not putting up MVP numbers already.

Guys, let the man play through his, all important, third season. Let's see how much he progesses, how well he adapts to playing along side Tmac and adjusts to the second season under Van Gundy. EVERY GM would salivate at the thought of having Yao on there team, already basing this impression on what he has done in only two seasons. Hell, there a couple of teams (ie: Warriors) who are setting up there rosters to have the cap room to make a run for him in two years. 30 GMs can't be wrong can they? No. They see exactly what, some of you posting here (patlabor1), don't and I am sure glad that you are not the GM of the Rockets or the franchise would quickly become the worst in the league.

 

I should have been clearer, I don't mean right now at this exact moment in time -we haven't even played one regular season game.

I mean his rookie contract years in trading him would be diffcult in matching salaries to get worthwhile players on Houston's end.

 

Who the heck in the NBA right now at 18 and 9 is getting the TV appearances and huge commercial endorsments that Yao is getting. Come on man, do you know the definition of overhyped Morod.

 

patlabor1, it's obvious that you're a Yao fan that would rather have him play in LA. That's fine. It's your opinion. But don't try and make it seem like LA would be doing Houston a great favor by taking Yao off their hands.

I mean if as you say, "Kobe needs a big man behind him to make several runs at a championship", then why would Houston even think about doing this deal. If Odom can't get it done next to Kobe, then what would be the point of teaming him up with T-Mac.

 

I just can't believe that trading Yao for Odom/Mihm and spare parts would be beneficial to both parties as you claim. Yao at his current level of production is worth keeping. Why should we care if Yao would be better utilized endorsement wise in California? It would be stupid to trade him for bits and pieces just so he could tap this 'unfulfilled marketing potential" somewhere else. And hell yes, the lakers would certainly benefit from that trade. They'd probably win the next 5 titles.

Patlabor1, I can't figure out whether you're a Yao only fan who wants Yao to be in the best position to succeed, or one of those "Houston basketball purists" who doesn't like him because he's overhyped. Probably somewhere in between, but i just don't get your post. Trading Yao for Odom would put us in even worse shape than the lakers are in right now. I'm not a fan of the brilliant swingman +nonshooter tweener 3/4 combo. I just don't think that'll work, and LA's failure this season will prove that.

Finally, I don't know where you get the "Houston is a basketball purist town" angle. Most people here are fair weather fans. Also, how could any basketball purist not love Yao's game? Bill Walton is the perfect example. He plays solid team ball, regardless of his number of TV appearances or his commercials.

 

I half-way agree with you on the over-hypness of Yao. From a basketball standpoint, he is a little over-hyped but not as much as you make it out to be. True, his stat line doesn't look like someone who should be a featured as a star in the league, but Yao is much more than his stat line and that is what I am saying. He has showed plenty of instances of becoming a great player. Besides, you should know that in this day of age, anyone that shows the potential to be a star will have all the hype. Look at LeBron and his highschool games on ESPN, or Kobe being featured in high-priced shoe commercials as a rookie putting up a fraction of the numbers Yao has so far in his career. I believe most of Yao's hype is justified as he is, not just a basketball star, but the most famous, recognized and beloved person of a nation. Yao has done, what he has so far, carrying the weight of his home country and has done it with the grace of a champion. My opinion, he deserves they hype much more than many other sports stars in America and it is refreshing to see the media showcase someone who does everything the right way.

Anyway, I am rambling, but I just feel like any thought of trading a talent, like Yao, just because you believe he is overhyped is just off. But that is my feeling. You have your opinion and I respect that. I guess I just wish people would compare Yao to someone like Bill Russell (All team, don't care about stats, just care about winning type player) than to guys like Shaq (not alot of basketball talent, cares too much about his stats). Isn't that what it's about anyway? Not about the 30/12 average, but about the W's and rings.

 

I'll conciliate my psoition regarding the percentages of 50/50
maybe 30/70 in favor of skills or whatever the magical number is

but I just wanted to make the point that the marketing aurora $$$ surrounding yao is what many many people around this sport is using when they define Yao as a superstar or "great" player which maybe unfair but it is what he is at this moment in time.

in terms of the media and the NBA marketing machine that's what they churn out,

as far as trading yao, my point is that this overhypness disease if it can be called that for Yao, maybe better served for him in Faker town where there would be less pressure on him to justify his $$ excesses where he would be the 2nd option

rather than H-town where "just my opinion" the crowds seem less receptive to such a marketing blitz (being the 1st option and getting too many $$$) than some other US cities.



so at least we agree to disagree, no harm, no foul

 

I think this is where we kind of agree. The hype surrounding him is unfair and makes expectations too high for him right now. Will he become a superstar player? There is a good possibility but, because he has already passed so many expectations and has recieved all the hype, there are alot of people that are dissapointed or upset at Yao when he doesn't put up superstar numbers. Like I said, I think Bill Russell is a great barometer to measure Yao to as a player who probably won't put up huge numbers, but will do everything well, including the things that don't show up in the box score afterwards. Or, a non-basketball comparison, Tom Brady who doesn't wow the fantasy numbers crowd but always wins and wins rings.

 

First of all, JVG doesn't run the offense through Yao because of expectations or hype. He does it becaue he believes it gives his team the best chance to win. I really don't understand what the '$$$' has to do with basketball. That's off the court stuff. If the city of Houston doesn't like Yao being the first option, then JVG is the one to blame.

Secondly, no matter what city Yao played in, he would eventually be criticized in a similar manner of what we are hearing now. If he doesn't play like he's capable of, he will be criticized anywhere.

 

"If the city of Houston doesn't like Yao being the first option, then JVG is the one to blame."

I didn't want to say his name but you said what I wanted to say but people will then accuse me of being a JVG Hater or something,

as far as critques of Ming I agree he will get it anywhere but my point is it will be lesser in Fakertown becus poeple there are more accustomed to overhypness (that's their main industry) then anywhere else maybe except NY,

and the fans have already accepted Yao being the second Option on the team (then the present case in H-town) with KB sharing the larger burden on the team's success again as opposed to H-town.

I have to go to sleep now (gotta work tommorrow) look forward to next debate...

 

Wow, I wonder how this place is gonna be like during the regular season...

 

I posted a while back on this tread regarding the idea of trading Yao. My main point was that I don't think that he is built for the long run. Conditioning is not a problem for Yao. I imagine that he is conditioned as a guy his size can be. I just think that he is a foot, knee, back problem waiting to happen and that in the next five to six years... he will be prone to health problems. He is not the first guy his size in the NBA. Eaton and Sampson are the best examples of big bigs with career health problems. Ilgauskas. Camby. LaFrentz. So many others... Big guys have health problems. Yao is a very, very big guy and I can only imagine that pounding his feet and knees take each time he runs down the court and the lower back pain he must feel after each game. Add to the fact that he has been playing 365 since he was in junior high... he is an injury waiting to happen.

I will take a center who averages 18 and 9 everyday of the week without hesitation. And Yao will do that for the ROX for years to come. I just hope that he does it through the duration of his upcoming MAX contract.

 

Rox need to let Kareem Abdul Jabbar to coach Ming, not Ewing. If JVG can't understand that, then Yao is probably better off in LA. I doubt LA would turn down Kareem for a chance to coach Yao. Something tells me Yao doesn't care much for Ewing's coaching.

 

Yao needs to do well against the Spurs. I'm pretty sure JVG is going to use all the starters. No more Boki and Gaines. TMac needs to see Yao at least perform with some proficiency against the top big man in the West.