1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

The people that make Texas look bad, part 50138

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by surrender, Oct 2, 2006.

  1. Samar

    Samar Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2003
    Messages:
    1,407
    Likes Received:
    8
    But thats not what the idiot in the story did. So that guy is an idiot. There was no priest who read the book so this argument does not matter.
     
  2. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 1999
    Messages:
    36,288
    Likes Received:
    26,645
    First, I agree with you. BUT that is the whole crux of the issue. At what point do we, as parents, draw the line for when we want our children "officially" exposed to things we don't necessarily agree with. I suspect most 15 year olds have probably heard the words that this guy disagrees with, in informal settings, but this guy doesn't want her exposed to this language through the official school curriculum and that is why it is difficult for me to judge him. He has his own set of limits that he is exercising and, at this point, it is not affecting anyone at that school.

    As a parent, where I would stand up and complain in this instance, is if the school review board agrees with him and bans the book because then they are taking an opportunity away from my child. In the meantime, I would support his right to state his case, because I want to ensure I have the same right afforded to me.
     
  3. Saint Louis

    Saint Louis Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 1999
    Messages:
    4,260
    Likes Received:
    0
    Texas isn't just a state, it is a f**ked up state of mind for some.
     
  4. Hippieloser

    Hippieloser Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2003
    Messages:
    8,272
    Likes Received:
    2,136
    No kiddin'! Class of 99.
     
  5. Hippieloser

    Hippieloser Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2003
    Messages:
    8,272
    Likes Received:
    2,136
    I don't have children. However, I majored in English. I've read pretty much every "classic" from Beowulf to Catch-22, and I feel pretty strongly about art and literature. Literature may not be everyone's cup of tea, and while there are greater works than 451 that include naughty language, it's a modern classic with a theme that EXPRESSLY addresses the very issue of censorship. The irony boggles the mind!

    Bottom line, this isn't a book that the kids are reading for fun. It's part of their education. Art and literature is just as important to understanding our culture as reading a history textbook is. I read the Torah and New Testament as part of my literature studies fully supported doing so because they are two incredibly important cultural documents. While Ray Bradbury is nowhere near that caliber of influence, this particular book fosters discussion of issues that are just as important. By banning books, you're essentially banning thought and discussion, and if we remove these from school I don't know what we're left with. Simple job training, I suppose. Surely you want more out of your children's schooling than the distribution of instruction manuals.

    EDIT: To be more clear, I support this man's right to say "This book contains naughty words that I don't wish my daughter to use and I dislike the book for that and other reasons." I do NOT support his wish to have the book censored or ban. Books contain themes such as theft, disease and murder, examples that I'm sure he doesn't want his daughter to follow, but that doesn't make the books morally objectionable. Theft, murder, and yes, even swearing, are part of the human experience and as such have a place to be portrayed in art.
     
    #45 Hippieloser, Oct 3, 2006
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2006
  6. thegary

    thegary Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    Messages:
    11,008
    Likes Received:
    3,140
    good post
     
  7. crums17

    crums17 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2005
    Messages:
    554
    Likes Received:
    1
    This girl's 15 and can't handle the language and themes in Fahrenheit 451? She must have some kind of learning disability or something.

    There's no way she's going to make it out of daddy's house. What a loser.
     
  8. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 1999
    Messages:
    36,288
    Likes Received:
    26,645
    And just to be clear, the man is not looking to ban the book or have it censored. He is asking that it be removed from the curriculum. I do not see anywhere in the article where he is asking for the book to be removed from the school.

    And as I wrote before, in this instance, if I were a parent of a 15 year old AND the book was removed from the curriculum, I would fight it. In this instance, I just don't see where the man is an "idiot" or a "moron" or the daughter is a "loser".

    If I were a high school administrator, here is what I would do at the end of every school year:

    1. Send all parents a list of all the books that will be read during the following school year.

    2. Include in that list a synopsis of the book as well as potentially objectionable parts (e.g. language, sexual situations).

    3. Encourage the parents to read the books over the summer and pass along any concerns by mid-August.

    4. Arrange meetings or focus groups prior to the study of the book to discuss the book itself and any concerns parents may have.

    5. At this point, if the parent(s) continue to object AND have participated in step 3 and/or step 4, assign a secondary book for the child to read.

    6. If the parent(s) object and have not participated in steps 3 and/or 4, tell them to stick it. :)
     
  9. leroy

    leroy Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Messages:
    27,367
    Likes Received:
    11,236
    I think most all of you have missed the point. Alton Verm has taken it upon himself to say what all students in CISD should or should not be allowed to read. This isn't about his daughter. This is about Alton Verm's view of what appropriate is and how he's trying to push it on thousands of students, administrators, and teachers. If you don't want your daughter to read the book, there are always options that can be discussed with the teacher.

    It's not your place to say how my child should be educated. I tend to trust those who are educated to make such decisions and not those who aren't educated.
     
  10. Yonkers

    Yonkers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2002
    Messages:
    8,433
    Likes Received:
    480
    This is where I stop agreeing with you. The man does have a right to voice his concern. The school district has repsonding and given his daughter some secondary reading. If some other anal parent wants to stop their kid from reading that book they can do the same thing.
    But at this point he is imposing his views on people and that makes him an idiot.
     
  11. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 1999
    Messages:
    36,288
    Likes Received:
    26,645
    Actually I am probably the only one that you are addressing. The only argument I am making is that the man is simply using the system that was set up by the school district to make his opinion heard and I see nothing stupid, idiotic or moronic about that.

    As parents, we are part of the school system. We have the right and the opportunity to be heard as to how we think our children should or should not be educated. That is our right and our freedom. We should be allowed to express our views within the system. I suspect the vast majority of the parents disagree with this man, but they also need to respect his right to work for change. If a parent is alone in their convictions, so be it.

    And I don't dispute that people can think he is idiotic or moronic. That is their right as well. In this instance, I simply do not judge this man to be some sort of moron, nor do I see where this puts the state of Texas in a bad light.
     
  12. thegary

    thegary Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    Messages:
    11,008
    Likes Received:
    3,140
    well, it depends on your definitions for those things. moron, idiot- whatever. the point is that he is denying access to culture. a civilized person ought to be able to let others have differing opinions on what's right and wrong. he should simply discuss the book with his daughter. censorship is backwards, and when combined with the story of the teacher taking her students to an art museum in dallas where they, OH MY GOD :eek: , saw nudity, you are not painting a very cultured picture for texas. sorry, but it's one of the reasons i don't live there anymore.
     
  13. Samar

    Samar Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2003
    Messages:
    1,407
    Likes Received:
    8
    True, but it shouldn't apply to the village idiots.
     
  14. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 1999
    Messages:
    36,288
    Likes Received:
    26,645
    What's idiotic to some folks isn't idiotic to others.
     

Share This Page