The Pelosi-Trump State of the Union Address Chess Match

Then why did he offer things he doesn't want in his plan?

And what exactly have they done to work with him?

Yes...which you agreed with, btw.

It was all about politics...this was a way to reinforce that Pelosi really didn't have much intention of working to compromise, or to end the shutdown. It will also to remind her who was ultimately in charge (negotiating stance). That it left her stranded on the tarmac was just a bonus. Or maybe the other way around...doesn't really matter, does it?

 

He wants this wall or fence that does or doesn't make sense if he was to get the funding for more security on the border and use it for the right things like adding more agents and cameras and detection equipment.

 

The Constitution gives the House control of revenue and spending. It is not normal for him to give dictation to the house and expect them to give him everything he wants.

He has the veto which is supposed to be a tool to bend the House. Not a "take my ball and go home" button.

This expectation shift has been a long time coming but Trump has picked up the ball at the 20 yard line and broken the game winner on the shift in expectations.

A true Constitutional originalist should be horrified at Trump expecting to dictate the budget he wants with a rubber stamp from the House.

BTW this is a carry over from French and English parliaments. Louie tried to get around it with the Estates General (badically the Royal French version of a Constitutional Convention) and started the French Revolution. King Charles tried to get around it by just ignoring the rules and locking parliment out for 13 years and started the English Civil War.

Apparently in the US we're just going to let him appropriate the power without a fight.

 

So far Trump really doesn't look good in this fiasco.... it has been a disaster for him.

Never underestimate the ability to Nancy Pelosi to be so nasty and vindictive to turns the public's perception though.

 

Spin baby spin. And who do they blame for the open borders?

 

Trump throws a temper tantrum and that makes Pelosi childish?

 

"open borders"? Well, since you aren't honestly portraying the Democrat position, I guess you are just frustrated that the majority of Americans are correctly blaming trump and the republicans. And all trump has to do is to swallow some ego and drop his vanity wall demand and both republicans and Democrats can focus on improving border security.

But, lets go with your "open border" claim. Before trump, there was already 654 miles of barrier on the southern border, including 354 miles to stop pedestrian traffic and 300 miles of anti-vehicle barriers. Doesn't sound "open" so far.

And there are over 16,000 border patrol agents stationed along the southern border. That doesn't sound very "open."

And that border patrol has arrested almost 52,000 people attempting to cross the southern border in 2018. That doesn't sound very "open."

Gee... I thought you said there was an open border?

But getting back to people blaming trump and the republicans for trump's government shutdown... it will be interesting to see what happens when people miss the next pay check. And the one after that. That "gee you are heroes and we are winning" will sound even more hollow...

 

I did not like what she did. I don't know how she or anyone not see by now that it would make him dig in further. So my initial thought was what she did wasn't helpful in re-opening the Gov and she was dumb to not realize that, or that she wanted to extend the shutdown for political reasons. I take political reasons at this point, but I also leave open the possibilities that the effect is eventually helpful due to Trump's bleeding support for the shutdown (as he hit back, he loses more support).

 

Apparently, mcconnell's mansion was already booked...

 

Not actually true (and I used to believe as you do).

Here is a good link describing the process, what the Constitution actually says, and how the process has evolved over time, into:

So, we're at step 1. The President has submitted a budget request to Congress. Still waiting on Step 2.

 

It's the latter. There shouldn't even be any argument over that. Whether or not it will prove effective is an open matter.

 

How is what Trump did different than Pelosi threatening to move the SOTU address? It's all politics. Dems say it was a temper tantrum because Trump's actual message, that there are more important things to prioritize than global junkets, would probably ring true to many. I think it was a calculated political move. Do you have any evidence it wasn't?

 

The whole state of the Union thing, either way, means very little to me.

 

I dont see how Trump imagines he's ever going to get anything out of Pelosi.

From your link:

The involvement of the President occurred as part of the evolution. At the start, Congress didn't involve the President at all. They made up a budget and sent it to the President. If you really believe in doing things as the founding fathers did, the founding fathers didn't wait on the President to tell them what to do. A legit strict constructionist would try to remove the President from the process to make it like it was in 1789 when Congress made their own damn budget and gave it to Washington.

George Washington never submitted a budget to Congress for approval. After him, none of the next 27 presidents submitted budgets to Congress for approval.

The first budget submitted by a President to Congress occurred in 1921 by, ironically, Warren G Harding, who is often compared to Trump when discussing the worst Presidents of all time.

I did have to Google the details, so it's not all off the top of my head. See Budget and Accounting Act of 1921. No if you aren't the kind of guy who talks about being a strict constructionist, this shouldn't bother you, I guess. But if you despise the New Deal, and the Civil Rights Act and every change that occurred after the Bill of Rights was ratified, you should be very upset about the President dictating a budget to Congress. If you Google " institutional presidency" you will find more detail on how that bill was considered transformative to the institution of the President and how it naturally lead to things like the New Deal and other stuff.

 

Latest CBS poll...



Pelosi has edge over Trump on budget negotiations, CBS News poll shows

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pelosi-has-edge-over-trump-on-budget-negotiations-says-cbs-news-poll/