yeah, FB, you may know this...what's the name of the really super-early christian work that had creeds in it that apparently paul cites to in his letter to the corinthians?? it's the dia-something, it think. do you know? also...cohen kinda touched on it...but the reformation happened for a reason. i'm not trying to say it was a divine reason, though i believe it certainly wasn't an accident...but i have a hard time matching up much of catholic tradition with scripture. having said that, i have so many catholic friends who have amazing relationship with God...so i'm not about to say it's a big deal today. but back in luther's time...and calvin's time..it was a big deal. a really big deal.
Do you mean the diatessoran? I think that's it. The only thing that popped into my mind was the Jewish diaspora. That's probably not it since it had to do with the Jews spreading out from Judah into other places in the Empire.
ooh, fun. Just a little filler to things I have seen thus far... Constantine began toying with adopting Christianity after about 310. In around 312 he started having soldiers use Christian symbols for luck. 321 he made Sunday a public holiday and in 325 he presided over the council at Nicea. Boom - Christianity starts to become royal and hip (although there were still many of the so-called pagan and mystery cults flourishing...many having similar or the same messiah figures and stories). So, with his public approval, Christians move out of obscure country houses (used as temples, often shared with Jews) and apartments (the wealtheir "church" of early Christianity) into what we would now think of as churches. Conveniently enough, these churches were based upon Constantine's basilica...and they were also called basilicas. Additionally, visual production goes from vague "good shepherd," "sun king," and "Jonah and the Whale" type allegorical representations of Christ to "Christ in majesty" regal, throned images. Based, of course, upon the standard of compositions used for Constantine and going back through Roman history. Even halos come from imperial Roman iconography. Oh, and Cohen - Luther regretted what he did, anyway. He was just seeking reform within the Catholic church. He felt that what ended up happening went way too far and that people shouldn't/couldn't directly communicate with God and interpret as they saw fit.
is there still not going to be subtitles? i don't really get the point of the audience not being able to understand the dialogue. to me it seems like they're trying to hide something by doing that. Gibson was also the director of Man Without A Face. In the book the main character did have a sexual relationship with the 12 year old boy. Of course in the movie this did not happen. I'm not advocating pedophilia here just pointing out that Gibson has no qualms about straying from the source material.
There are sub-titles in the final cut. During the early stages Gibson wanted the film to speak for itself, but after very early test screenings viewers urged him for the sub-titles. As for staying true to the story and Gibson has said in MANY MANY interviews about the passion that he believes all of man-kind is responsible for the death of Jesus. If anyone truly believes that he'd shoot the movie to be anti-Semitic they are crazy, because in doing so he’d be denying the faith he’s supposedly trying to portray. Look, if he accused the Jews of killing Jesus it would not only be wrong it would be sacrilege. For the Christian faith to come about the death of Jesus had to take place, and based on that faith his death took place not because Pontius Pilate allowed it to, but it took place because Jesus sacrificed himself for all of man-kinds sins before and after. I'm not trying to “win souls” here, just trying to state the fact that if he is the Christian he says he is, there is no way he could make it anti-Semitic. He didn’t make or fund this film to make money, although he is sure to make millions off of it because of the pre-sales… hell he didn’t even have a distributor until just a couple of months ago and the distributor he got is an independent firm. The bottom line is that religious non-Christians for the most part aren’t going to like something like this because it could very well pull people from their faith towards Christianity, and I can’t say that I blame them. All I can say is read the articles and watch Mel Gibson Monday on ABC’s Primetime and hear it from his mouth why he did this. URL of a site that tracks all of the news abou The Passion, good and bad : http://www.passion-movie.com/english/news.asp
I was born Jewish but am now undecided. If anything, I would lean toward polytheism. That said, I don't beleive that Jesus was ever anything more than some guy way back when you got killed and then was idolized for some reason or another. So, a movie about John Lennon's death would be just as moving to me.
Mel Gibson is to be on Monday's edition of "Primetime" on ABC at 9:00PM CST. Here is an article taken from that interview with Diane Sawyer on ABC.com : http://abcnews.go.com/sections/Primetime/Entertainment/mel_gibson_passion_040216-1.html
Gibson: "Critics who have a problem with me don't really have a problem with me in this film," Gibson says. "They have a problem with the four Gospels. That's where their problem is." Actually, they do have a problem with Mel's interpretation, or his ... fictional additions to the Gospels. Read the article in the current issue of Newsweek if you have any questions about Mel's fictionalization of the events ... that all seem to be anti-Jewish. Personally, I don't think Gibson is anti-Semitic, but regardless of what he claims, he was still motivated at some level to make a 'good' or 'entertaining' movie with the amateurish good guys/bad guy theme. It caused him to fictionalize events, and people unfamiliar with the Gospels in detail will accept this movie as gospel. Now Mel may not blame Jews for the death of Christ, and some here don't. But there are plenty who do, and this is an IRRESPONSIBLE act by Gibson. Why not just let the story stand on its own? Did he believe that it wasn't fascinating or intriguing enough?
I just saw a preview too but the preview I saw made me not want to go watch it. The preview had all these messages within it such as "Go support Mel Gibson and see The Passion of the Christ " and "Go see The Passion of the Christ and make this the #1 movie of all time."
Ugh. Christian Marketing of THE PASSION http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/week722/news.html BOB ABERNETHY, anchor: Well before it is released to the public, Mel Gibson's movie, THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST, has provoked sharp controversy about whether it is anti-Semitic, whether it is too violent, and over who has said what about the film. Critics say Gibson's production company has been too secretive about the movie's content and has allowed it to be prescreened only by people they think will like it. Meanwhile, quietly, the film's marketers are developing a partnership with Christian pastors and ministries. As Kim Lawton reports, many Christians see THE PASSION as an opportunity for evangelizing, while the marketers see the ministries as a key to advance sales. KIM LAWTON: Advance promotional trailers for THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST have been playing in movie theaters, over the Internet, and now in local churches too. In a specially designed four-minute-long trailer for churches, Mel Gibson tells congregations about his film. MEL GIBSON: My hope is that its message will change people's lives, remind them of the enormity of the sacrifice that was made for us all. It's a story I believe in. LAWTON: The church trailer also includes an endorsement from prominent evangelical author and pastor Lee Strobel. LEE STROBEL (Author, THE CASE FOR CHRIST): Just like Mel's obedience to his calling in making the movie, I believe God has a role for you and for me in sharing its message with unbelievers. LAWTON: The trailer is on a DVD being sent free of charge to thousands of pastors across the country, but not to the media. It's part of a massive grassroots marketing campaign designed to encourage Christians to promote THE PASSION as a way to spread their faith -- a campaign that troubles some of Gibson's critics. ABRAHAM FOXMAN (Anti-Defamation League): There is an offensive commercial tinge to this. It's almost a, it becomes a religious mission to see this movie. LAWTON: Officials of Gibson's company, Icon Productions, declined to comment on the campaign, which a spokesman called a typical "affinity marketing strategy." Evidence of the strategy is abundant on the Internet. The California-based Christian ministry Outreach, Inc. worked with Icon to produce the DVD and has set up a Web site calling THE PASSION "perhaps the best outreach opportunity in 2,000 years." The site has resources for churches, including 13 ideas on how they can use the film. There are sermon outlines and suggestions for establishing discussion groups. Pastors can buy PASSION-themed invitation cards, evangelistic booklets, bulletin inserts, and even doorknob hangers that can be personalized to invite the community to specific local churches. On another site, churches can buy 30-second commercials to run on their local TV stations. The spots include scenes from the movie, and then have a place for pastors to appear and personally invite people to attend their church. In Colorado Springs, the International Bible Society is shipping out boxes of scriptures tied to the movie. For nearly 200 years, IBS has distributed specialty Scripture products for targeted audiences. Now, they've published two new books that include images from THE PASSION: an entire New Testament and the Gospel of Luke. They're encouraging people to "read the book that inspired the movie." PETER BRADLEY (President, International Bible Society): We see this film as a wonderful, let's call it awakening. I think it's going to draw people into the gospel in a way they probably hadn't perceived before they walked into that theater. And we see it as a terrific way to bring people back into the Bible. LAWTON: One big obstacle in promoting THE PASSION is overcoming the usual wariness many church people might have about seeing an R-rated movie that is reported to be extremely violent. The church trailer attempts to reassure. Mr. STROBEL: This film wasn't made with regard to what rating it might receive; it was made with regard to reality. So in this case, the "R" would stand for that word, reality. LAWTON: Icon Productions has sponsored private advance screenings of the film for thousands of Christian leaders, including this group of 5,000 evangelical pastors who met in Florida last week. Members of the media were not allowed to attend. Meanwhile, many Jewish leaders who are concerned about THE PASSION's portrayal of Jews have also not been allowed to prescreen the film. Abraham Foxman believes Icon is manipulating religious sentiments for commercial gain. Mr. FOXMAN: They're trying to manage it before its opening, in the hopes that they can presell as many tickets and, you know, hook as many people before there is an open debate and discussion. LAWTON: Foxman generated his own controversy by sneaking into the pastors' meeting last week, claiming he was from the fictitious "Church of Truth." Mr. FOXMAN: I believe that the sin of anti-Semitism is greater than, you know, my going in uninvited. And I'm certainly not sorry that I did it. LAWTON: Many evangelical and mainline Protestants who have seen the movie say they didn't find it anti-Jewish. Peter Bradley says for him, the movie had a powerful spiritual impact. He says his organization's PASSION project is not a commercial venture but a ministry. Mr. BRADLEY: We see it, quite frankly, as being very much part of our mission, which is really to bring the gospel to the world. LAWTON: THE PASSION opens nationwide on Ash Wednesday, February 25. Between the controversy and the grassroots church efforts, it has already received more advance buzz than most film producers could ever dream of getting. I'm Kim Lawton reporting.
Apparently they have decided to use subtitles. I saw a brief blurb on TV where they showed the film and it had subtitles.
cohen, help me out here...what are they saying he added? again...my understanding is that he tries to stay as close to the gosples as possible...whether or not you believe them is another story, but that he tried to stick to the story.
what here makes you go, "ugh." as i see it, this is largely mel playing marketing toward a very targeted group..namely, Christians. the remarks about not being able to see the movie...ummm..i seem to remember he had a screening of it specifically for jewish leaders and rabbis. some walked out saying it was anti-semitic, some didn't. isn't that right?
Originally posted by MadMax what here makes you go, "ugh." as i see it, this is largely mel playing marketing toward a very targeted group..namely, Christians. Well for me, he's claiming he only produced it out of his religious fervor. Now they're trying every marketing trick in the book to make loads of $$$. Hey, what's that about serving God and Money? the remarks about not being able to see the movie...ummm..i seem to remember he had a screening of it specifically for jewish leaders and rabbis. some walked out saying it was anti-semitic, some didn't. isn't that right? Don't know. Have a link?
every marketing trick in the book? he's encouraging evangelism through the film, to be sure. i didn't expect the man would not try to make some of the money back he invested in this movie. he essentially made a movie in 2 dead languages, which isn't exactly evidence he was seeking a commercial return first and some spiritual significane, second. i will gladly pay to see this movie... i don't have any links...sorry. i don't know for sure that happened..i just seem to recall it. i know for a fact i've heard jewish leaders on news talk shows commenting on their impressions after seeing the movie. cohen - did you read my post above this? what are they saying he added?
I am not saying he added anything, since I am not well versed in the Gospels. It was in the Newsweek article, along with how Mel's interpetation does not jive with modern interpretations of the Gospels and history. This is the best article I've read on it: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4212741/
