just because they dont write novels about their team doesn't mean they arent smart. that's how californians are. they live life easy and through the fast lane.
My favorite was when they could not stop laughing at the Rockets planning on single teaming Kobe. Ummm Rockets haven't doubled teamed any superstar, we have 2 great wing defenders and Yao. We aren't saying Battier or Artest is gonna shut down Kobe because no one in the NBA can do that, double teamed or triple teamed, or all 5 of our guys surrounding him... it's just saying that is best way to guard him, make his shots tough and hope he shoots into one of those 10/30 kind of nights. Damn Lakers fans need to chill the f*** out. Straight up the fans dismissed this team and were ready to kick Kobe out and now are all straight up sucking his d*** damn and I thought Cfans had a lot of bandwagoners, I can't imagine how many are on a Lakers bandwagon that 3 years ago was mediocre and now have talent.
I don't think that's the best Lakers forum on the net. Like mentioned above, it's just a bunch of teens that just post witty one-liners and nothing insightful. Not trying to advertise for them, but try reading clublakers.com.
yeah, clublakers has its stuff together. Some good reads in there. I like to read their take on taking us. http://www.clublakers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=110019
These guys have no life. They have individualized quotes from everyone in their thread. That is a little overboard i think.
L4L, a moderator on its site posted the following and I thought it was pretty interesting: Good post joecapples1, this would be my gameplan: If you cut off the head of the snake, the body dies. Yao IS Houston's offense and without him they are a D-League offensive team. Yao is a player you can take out of the series because he, as a player, presents serious liabilities for the Rockets. Principles of attacking Yao: 1) Make him a defensive liability. 2) Take away his legs. 3) Force him to shoulder the entire load by making him the focus of every offensive and defensive position. Make every position depend on whether or not Yao delivers for the Rockets. Yao tires easily. He only plays 34mpg and spent most of his basketball life in China and Europe where games are only 40 minutes long. He's HUGE and that kind of weight takes a toll on your cardio system. It is only logical to make Yao work as much as possible. Because Yao is huge, he moves slowly from side to side and can be a defensive liability as a result. He CANNOT get out on the pick and roll and Adelman has give up even getting him to try; he simply CANNOT do it in time. As such, the Rockets rely on team defense to stop teams from abusing Yao. They also hope that teams don't have a good pick and roll big man. No such luck against us. This is the singular biggest weakness for the Rockets and it MUST be exploited. Yao is a great player, but I don't think he's a legendary player. I believe Yao will crumble, as he has in the past, if we make this entire series about Yao beating the Lakers by himself. Attack him at every turn defensively and make the Houston offense rely solely on his production. This takes his teammates out of the game and will test Yao in a way he cannot handle. He isn't good enough physically or mentally to beat a team by himself. The above goals are all interrelated and the Lakers have to pieces to accomplish all of these things simultaneously: A) Start Lamar Odom and/or play him significant minutes. i. Kobe/Pau pick 'n' roll against Yao Before his '07-'08 injury, Bynum was an elite finisher on the PnR. He made it impossible for teams to double Kobe off the screen because his incredible leaping at the rim made smaller rotating help-defenders, which usually disrupt these kinds of plays, invisible. However, that explosion is a thing of the past -- at least currently. In any case, Pau has a more well-rounded scoring skill set and it isn't any different in terms of the pick and roll. Yao doesn't show on the pick and roll. He doesn't even try. That is how slow he is. He literally waits behind the screen and plays matador with the charging, bull-guards. Against superior players, he sometimes struggles to stop them at the rim. When this happens, the Rockets start leaving the screener and doubling the ball-handler. They then rotate one of their smalls under the hoop to prevent the pass on the roll. This leads to a difficult kick-out to the three point line and it is a pass that not all players can make let alone consistently (cross-court, over three defenders, and momentum carrying you in the opposite direction of the pass). Because of Pau's ability to make a jump shot, he can simply pop out to the elbow for a mid-range J. This a shorter and easier pass. If they begin to rotate a smaller defender over to stop this, Pau can touch-pass the ball into the corner for an open three or Kobe can make the more natural pass into the corner. It will still be over defenders, but only two, and his momentum will carry him towards the pass. With Bynum, this option is unavailable. In the case of a switch, Pau's post game is currently more reliable than Bynum's and he has a greater chance to convert one on one with a mismatch. In addition, Pau is also nimbler and quicker than the version of Bynum we have right now. This gives Kobe an even better chance to exploit Yao because Yao has less time to sit back and prepare for Kobe turning the corner. ii. Rebounding, Fast-Breaking, and Mobility Odom and Pau are a better rebounding combination than Pau and Bynum. I believe this will be especially true in a series against Luis Scola, Carl Landry, and Chuck Hayes who are ALL strictly hustle, mobility based rebounders. They don't use their size or strength to get position because they are all small. They are just extremely good at tracking the ball down in the air and getting there before slower, less mobile bigs do. This isn't as big of a problem with Odom who is quite quick himself, but it is a huge problem with Pau who is a lazy rebounder as it is. Everyone wants to run against the Rockets because Yao is slow, running makes him tired, and making Yao a liability is the primary goal of any team trying to beat the Rockets. To run, you need to rebound. Odom's presence not only makes us a superior rebounding front-court, but he himself can ignite fast breaks just by grabbing the rebounding and taking it himself. Pau has always been better in transition than Bynum and few big men run the court better than Gasol. With more opportunities to run because of better defensive rebounding and Odom's ability to ignite the fast break, Pau gives us more chances to beat Yao down court because he's faster, in better shape is perhaps more accurate, than Bynum. Not only is Yao running more, he's losing more races. This makes him tired, this makes him the focus of more possessions (when the defense hinges on whether or not he gets back), AND it brings us closer to making the Rocket's best player a liability for them. iii. Neutralizing Scola Scola was the Rockets leading scorer last series and he did it by exposing the softness of LaMarcus Aldridge. He out-hustled him, took advantage of the frequent Yao double teams, and simply took mental advantage of a player he was much more experienced and smarter than. Experience, intelligence, and doubling won't be a factor against Pau (we don't double big on big usually), but hustle and softness WILL be factors in addition to a new added quickness advantage. By starting Lamar, that quickness advantage immediately dissipates. Hustle? Forget out-hustling LO. Softness? He takes it personally; ask Matt Harpring. Double teaming may then become a factor because LO tends to be an extremely aggressive help defender, but you turn Scola from an aggressive, impact hustle player into a role-playing jump shooter off of kick-outs. By neutralizing Scola, Houston relies more heavily on Yao offensively which weakens his legs, weakens his role-player's contributions and energy levels (hard to stay active when you're watching Yao all night), and brings us yet another step closer to cutting off the Rocket's at the source: Yao Ming. iv. Pau vs Yao; 1v1 in the pinch post We want the ball in Kobe's hands as much as possible because it doesn't make sense to turn the best on-ball scorer in the world into a spot-up jump shooter (which just happens to be probably the one weakness in his offensive game). That said, when Kobe is out, or when Yao is particularly vulnerable because of foul trouble or fatigue, it makes sense to go right at him. The best way to take advantage of Yao defensively, is always the same: make him move laterally. Bynum has no high post game; he can't make Yao move laterally. Pau, on the other hand, is one of the best high-post scoring Cs in the game today. I put this in the section revolving around Odom for one reason: when Odom is in the game, there isn't a helpside shot blocker waiting in the paint. Odom can play the perimeter and Bynum cannot. Bynum would wait on the opposite block while Pau went one on one. Once Pau beat Yao off the dribble, assuming Yao didn't allow him to take a wide open mid-range J which Pau shoots at over 45% (Yao doesn't like to come out), Bynum's man would rotate over to cut off the penetration, a small would drop down to disrupt the passing lane to Bynum, and we'd be left with Pau making a cross-court pass to a three-point shooter on the wing. This is a relatively high percentage pass depending on how fast the double comes, BUT this pass never happens at all if someone isn't sitting underneath the hoop waiting for the drive. With Odom in the game, instead of potentially getting a three-point shot or a turnover, Pau gets a chance to finish at the rim against Yao, draw the foul, or get his own offensive board if Yao sacrifices position to go for a block. Either way, this is a higher percentage shot and, again, it makes Yao the sole focus of the defense, which is exactly what we want. The only way the Rockets can counter this tactic is to double on the catch and Pau will see it coming a mile away, make the incredibly easy kick out, we'll swing it once, and have a wide open three without the threat of any dangerous passes. The Rockets won't likely do this. Instead, it will be more of Yao trying to shoulder the load. v. Getting Bynum Going We all know how important this is for our chances going forward, but let's all be truthful about Andrew Bynum; he cares more about scoring than anything else. He can't score in the first unit because he isn't a good option compared to Kobe and Pau. However, in the second unit, he's got a better chance to get touches particularly if Walton is back from injury. He responds to one thing and one thing only: scoring. He plays infinitely harder on both ends of the court when he gets touches. We can't afford to have him play around with Yao Ming on the block. That is the weakest way to attack Yao; that is playing to Yao's strength. However, the Rockets literally have no back-up center. There isn't another guy in their rotation above 6'10". When Yao is out of the game, Bynum can really dominate offensively in the post. His game is all about confidence, activity, and effort. If he's scoring, all three of those attributes go up exponentially. Getting Bynum going isn't about minutes, it is about touches IMHO. To reiterate, he won't get those in the starting unit. vi. Make it a scoring contest By starting Bynum, we are trying to flex our defensive muscles. It doesn't make any sense to try and out-hustle, and out-defense a team which has predicated its entire season around that style of play. Honestly, with the way Bynum's playing, I'm not sure we aren't a better defensive team with Odom out there anyway; he has been one of the best team defenders in the entire NBA this season. By making this series about whether or not Yao can out-work and out-score us, we force them to play our style and that's up-tempo and offense first. No one in the world can hang with us in this style of play. As such, it has to be our primary goal to play this way as much as possible. By starting Bynum, we are conforming to their style of play; we are matching up with them. Force them to respond us. Let's not adjust to them before the series has even started. The Rockets have no chance of scoring with us. They can only win in a defensive slug-fest. Why even give them a chance to play that kind of game? Start Lamar. B. Defensive Strategy against Yao i. Front Him with Pau Look, refs allow wrestling matches with Yao down low. Not taking advantage of this is nonsensical. If we can bait the Rockets into taking contested threes outside the flow of the offense, they can't score. With Lamar and Pau in the game, they may slow us down, but they have no chance to stop us with a steady diet of pick and roll and the greatness of Kobe Bryant. If they want to play this way, it is a blowout. Pau is extremely long and much more mobile than Yao. Yao is much stronger and bigger than Pau even still. Pau doesn't have a great chance to defend him on the block which is why some would want to start Bynum. By front Yao, we prevent Yao from getting the ball easily. Yao not only has to work to score now, as he would against Bynum, but he has to work to even get the ball. The more work we make Yao do, the more we make the offense about whether or not Yao can deliver, the better off we are. Besides, Ariza, Odom, Bryant, and even Fisher are all good to great, considering their positions, at getting into the passing lanes to disrupt entries. ii. No doubles after the catch unless he has deep position We want Yao to work for his points. We want Yao to do everything he can. What we don't want is all of their role-players getting involved canning threes, getting their energy up, and making an impact. Watching Yao do everything is boring and will affect all of the Rockets' energy. The Rockets rely on team energy to succeed. It doesn't make sense to give them a spark plug by quickly doubling Yao every time he touches it. Against Bynum's/Pau's length, Yao isn't automatic anyway (unless he has deep position). Again, this goes back to making Yao work, making the offense about Yao, taking out Yao's legs, and putting the dagger in Houston's collective team heart; Yao. C. Secondary Defensive Strategies i. Toy with Artest's mind He's crazy. We all know it. He responds to challenges and a mad player is a bad player. We want Kobe to guard him for several reasons. If Kobe is guarding Artest, he will be engaged. Kobe does not want to be embarrassed. If he guards Battier, he'll "roam". Roaming doesn't work against shooters like Battier. What that does is gets us burned and leads to unnecessary doubles on Yao which cuts down on his work load. In addition, Ron Ron will take it personally. With Yao being fronted, Kobe guarding him will only give him a good excuse to chuck. If their offense is Ron Ron chucking versus putting Yao in the pick and roll + Kobe Bryant being Kobe Bryant, they have NO CHANCE to win regardless of how good their defense might be (and it won't be good with Yao trying to defend the PnR). ii. Take the ball out of Brooks hands Now, I'm not suggesting doubling him, I'm suggesting putting a much taller, longer player on him so that he has difficulty making post entry passes. Brooks can't make entries over Brown who is a good four inches taller and much longer nor does he have a prayer in the world against a guy like Ariza or Kobe. Instead, because the Rockets focus SO greatly on getting Yao the ball, this will funnel touches to either Artest, which we've already established as a good thing considering his propensity to chuck, or Battier. Battier can't create off the dribble. Battier will be left trying to make an entry to a fronted Yao forcing Yao to have to work extremely hard to create a passing angle. Yao will already have expended a great deal of energy before he even touches the ball. Brooks is a shooter and their best one at that. He's short though. He can't get off shots without space. He's less likely to have that space against Brown, Ariza, and/or Kobe. If the Rockets think Brooks is going to be able to consistently penetrate one on one against those three guys, we'll take it. Our offense is Kobe/Pau pick and roll against a guy who can't defend that action + Kobe Bryant just being Kobe Bryant and theirs is a second year PG out of Oregon trying to out-score the best offensive team in basketball. We're going to win every time. Brooks is not used to this role and hasn't played it since college; he's not good enough to succeed in that capacity at an NBA level. iii. Play Fisher less and/or on Battier Obviously, this leaves either less minutes for Fisher or minutes for Fisher against Battier. This presents a size mismatch and makes post entry passing a little easier for Battier. However, we can live with this for two reasons: a)This makes the Rockets even more likely to go away from Brooks and Artest who at least stand a chance of making a play off the dribble and b) Yao is now guaranteed to have to make a play on almost every single offensive possession all the while being attacked almost every single offensive possession on the other end. He won't be able to hold up. If the Rockets want to try and make their offense about posting Derek Fisher up with Shane Battier, have at it. Fisher is strong as an ox and pushing him around isn't easy even for a guy with six inches on him. Battier isn't a scorer and hasn't been since college. Even then, he didn't really do it in the post. You're asking a guy to score on the block who probably hasn't done any of that since his high school years over a decade ago. Not only that, you're asking him to out score Kobe Bryant and Pau Gasol. It won't happen. You always want to attack a team at its weak points, but sometimes that is done passively. By preventing a team to go to its strength, you are forcing them to go to their weaknesses and indirectly attacking the chinks in their armor. That is part of our mission against the Rockets. This team relies on hustle, energy, and total team participation. By making this all about Yao, we take away the identity of this team. The Rockets have never been about a superstar; the Rockets are about a group of guys who banded together around a defensive identity. Isolating Yao defensively with the PnR and in the high post, makes even the defensive side of the ball a mostly one man show. If the Rockets can't play their style of ball, they can't win. If they are forced to play Lakers basketball, they will be blown off the court. It is high time this team uses its versatility to force teams to play the style of basketball it wants to play rather than using that versatility as a cop out to play whatever style the other team wants to play. The change can start now against Houston. Once that change happens, no one can beat this team when they are firing on all cylinders.
Being in Laker Land over here, I can vouche that most the fans are a notoriously over-confident bunch... but as the last post shows, there are some knowledgable Lakers fans as well . Who've seen plenty successful Lakers basketball to become fans and actually study the sport, instead of relying on Lakers greatness and name brand. ( USC fan on the other hand, forget it )
That's a great gameplan and looks very solid on paper... but executing it is a completely different story. Our best strategy to counter the one presented in that post is the pick and pop that includes a combination of Aaron/Lowry and Yao/Scola/Landry.... our best option would be Brooks/Scola. Brooks can create off the dribble and can easily get by just about anybody that guards him. The problems are his inability to finish at the rim with a defender around him and his stubborness to look past this problem and force up a shot anyways. If we can get Aaron to drive and kick to the open shooter, we'll be in good shape. Let's keep our fingers crossed on that one, though. Lastly, and I posted this on another forum, we HAVE to keep Artest away from Kobe in the fourth quarter. Most of our fourth quarter undoings against the Lakers have been Artest taking it upon himself to put up points... and not being able to actually do it. Making him guard Kobe on defense would only make him want to shoot more. I say let Artest guard Kobe in the first half. In every game we've played against the Lakers this season, Kobe's been passive in the first half. Let's take advantage of that. Let Ron do his thing defensively in the first half, and then switch it up in the second. Once Kobe starts being aggressive in the second half, we need to have Battier on him to force him into bad spots... then we basically hope Kobe misses the first few and starts forcing them up anyways. There's no "right" way to guard Kobe, but this is our best chance at limiting his effectiveness. The bench play is going to be a big factor as well. It's no secret, the Lakers have one of the most effective benches in the league (if not THE most effective) so it will be key for our bench to play with/outplay them as much as possible. We really need Landry's energy, Von's ability to create, Lowry's toughness, and Chuck's low-post defense if we want to win this series.
Also, I forgot to point out, we aren't going to be able to stop their pick and roll on a consistent basis. Our only chance of stopping it is to try and force them into a bad decision... which is tough because they are so experienced.
Sigh... Yeah reading the quotes they posted really made me realize how far our forum (read: GARM) has fallen over the years. Depressing.
Imagine that.. they'd probably say.. look at those houston fans! Don't even support their team! Or.. wow,they're not even good at praising the Lakers!