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The Orlando Trade is Looking Like a Steal

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by glynch, Oct 11, 2004.

  1. thacabbage

    thacabbage Contributing Member

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    In Lue and Ward, the Rockets have undoubtedly the worst duo of point guards in the entire league. The irony here lies in the fact that they are still better off at the position than they were last year.
     
  2. Willis25

    Willis25 Member

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    Goodbye, Point Guard, you will be missed

    http://www.***********.com/point-guard-090104.shtml

    By Jean-Paul Pelosi / Sept 1, 2004

    The NBA Point Guard died today due to complications surrounding a neglected existence. He was 54. He is survived by his more popular cousin, Shooting Guard.

    PG was born in the fall of 1950, around the time legendary Bob Cousy began his professional career in Boston, PG carved out a role as a team staple - a selfless playmaker and organizer, a leader, an on-floor coach.

    His "pass first, shoot second" mentality was one of a kind, spawned by an unselfish nature rarely seen in professional sports. He was a "people" person, a unifier of mind and purpose with the sole intention of instilling team harmony.

    PG's motivation arose from a desire to win and achieve the best result. Developing his skills over five decades, he rapidly became the catalyst of the NBA offense and inspired numerous others to follow his lead; Bob Cousy, K.C. Jones, Nate Archibald, Calvin Murphy, Earvin Johnson, Isiah Thomas, John Stockton, Dennis Johnson, Mark Jackson, Scott Skiles and Jason Kidd, to name a few.

    Cousy once said, "If basketball is an art form it primarily resides in the artistry, creativity, imagination and development of the nuances of the position by a genuine point guard such as John Stockton or Jason Kidd."

    "Genuine" was one of PG's nicknames.

    His career flourished through the decades and over that time elevated to an art form. More like architecture than oil painting though, he distributed the ball with the same mathematical accuracy required to use a set square. Magic Johnson and Mark Jackson may have added flair but only on top of a fundamental base.

    So it was with extreme anguish that NBA fans were forced to swallow a contaminated blend of this skill during the turn of the 1990s. Perhaps the arrival of too many scorers spoiled the league's delicious broth. Or maybe everybody, regardless of position, just wanted to be like Mike. Whatever the cause, PG's life was forever changed by a modern recipe that no longer resembled the sweetness of basketball that we had come to love.

    The last decade especially harmed PG's presence on the floor. Hybrid guards - too small to be traditional scorers and too tall to be restricted as passers - marched into the NBA as if Joe Dumars had gone mad and cloned himself over and over again. These guards nullified the need for a pure "two-guard", providing teams with the same scoring capacity in a much more dynamic package. Conversely they could fulfill a mild passing role, offering point guard-like speed and dexterity to dish to open players.

    The end result was a new guard-type that excelled in self-sufficiency and became engrossed in personal achievement. A one-man-band if ever there was one, the NBA's doors opened and remained latched back for the Iversons, the Davis', the Van Exels, the Marburys, the Billups', the Fishers, the Flip Murrays, the Francis' and the Cassells to enter.

    PG was benched. What use was there for a Point Guard after all when the new guys could take care of most offensive requirements?

    His heart defeated and his soul bruised, PG eventually floated from the game altogether. And while he became expendable and hardly recognized, many fans wondered why the standard of the NBA had depreciated. Where was the movement, teamwork and leadership that had embodied the league's golden years? Where was the ball distribution, the even flow of the five-man unit? And more importantly, where was the artistry of the pass?

    Remember when Skiles broke the single game assist record in 1990 with 30? Or how about when Magic served 22 set-ups in the '84 All Star game? And we will never forget the grace with which Stockton accumulated a best ever 15, 806 career assists.

    Such magnificence seems from a retro era - achievements to reminisce and not expect to again. It may as well be the "starting four" from this point on.

    These days we revere the "avant" guard. He shoots, he scores, he throws the occasional pass, and shoots again. Chauncey Billups was the most recently praised of the hybrid battalion. The 2004 Finals MVP averaged a paltry 5.2 assists per game in the championship series. Compare this to Isiah Thomas' 7 apg in 1990, against the Lakers incidentally. Billups probably couldn't even imagine passing the ball as regularly as Isiah or Magic did when they played in the Finals. Magic tallied 20 assists in Game 2 of the Finals against Detroit in '87 and 21 in Game 3 against Boston in '84, just for example. In the 1985 finals he averaged 14 assists per game!

    That is why true basketball fans across America and around the world now mourn. The passing of the NBA Point Guard is a sad moment in the history of the sport.

    Thanks for the memories, PG. We'd be better off adopting a "no-look" without you in the ball game
     
  3. matrevino

    matrevino Member

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    How can u actually say this with a straight face. Who did he make worse. Give me some examples, from what i recall we had yao, kato, mobley which have played their years with only the rockets. JJ had his best season with us, then we had a bunch of old guys, and u cant expect them to be any good. Watch what happens in orlando and you let me know if he makes players good. Orlando will have an athletic team, and francis will be the leader.
     
  4. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    I was going to write the same thing but its like what’s the point. The most illegitimate and false criticism of Francis is that he holds teammates back. Its ridiculous. He didn’t hold Posey back, Mobley back, Taylor back, Cato back, etc. Any player who played any significant time in other places without him and then playing here, there is no proof. The only player you could even remotely make that argument for is Shandon Anderson, and we see how much he has improved since leaving Houston.
     
  5. Severe Rockets Fan

    Severe Rockets Fan Takin it one stage at a time...

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    That's kind of funny, but very true. We needed a PG that could get the ball to our best scorers and not have to decide if he(one of our worst % scorer at the time) should jack up a shot. Unfortunately he got most of our shots.
     
  6. Willis25

    Willis25 Member

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    Not unite-ing and "making worse" are two different ideas. The poster wasn't saying that SF3 made any worse - what the poster said was that SF3 could not unite the team... and I tend to agree. Francis could pick the team up on his back at times, but he was not one of those players that lifted the whole team up to greatness. If anythying, he needed to have the ball in his hands to carry the team - when he tried to get other involved (like Yao) his own game tended to suffer (he couldn't get into a flow)

    Look, I like the guy and think he will do well in O-town (although management there sucks so bad I hope he gets traded - for his own sake) - but no one said he made people worse... stop over-reacting
     
  7. hpscc

    hpscc Member

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    The trade is looking very good for Houston, but that doesn't mean it's a steal.

    Considering Orlando had the worst record in the NBA last year, I doubt many Magic fans are upset about the team getting busted up.

    It will be interesting to see whether Houston or Orlando makes the biggest improvement in win total.
     
  8. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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  9. thacabbage

    thacabbage Contributing Member

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    If the Magic make even a 10 game improvement up to 31 wins, the Rockets would have to win 55 to keep pace. I think it's a pretty safe bet that the Magic will have a far greater improvement in win total...
     
  10. DavidS

    DavidS Member

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    pgabriel, you're proof will be what Orlando turns into over the next few years.
     
  11. Oski2005

    Oski2005 Member

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    I can't call this trade a steal simply because Orlando had no real choice in the matter. T-Mac wanted out and he said he'd only sign with Houston. Orlando took whatever they could get. I truly believe if T-Mac had said he'd resign with other teams, he wouldn't be a Rocket.
     
  12. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    Like when he led the Rockets to 45 games in the West with no other all-star. I have proof of what Francis can do, now where’s yours to back up that ridiculous statement.
     
  13. Severe Rockets Fan

    Severe Rockets Fan Takin it one stage at a time...

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    So when something is stolen, both parties have a choice in the matter? :confused:
     
  14. DavidS

    DavidS Member

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    Poor Orlando.

    No, the proof will be when TMac (Ward, Lue and Howard) can mesh/and use Yao wayyyyyy better than Francis could ever hope to! A real team! While Francis will achieve his nominal 45 games in Orlando. Ho hum...All while WE move into he 50+ win season and actually make progress each year...

    That's the "talent" I talk about when I say he holds players back. He's doesn't make his teammates better. He makes himself better, and we live and die with his bundlers. This has been repeated time and time again by analysts, journalists, and on-air commentators (even our own Rocket commentators).

    His achievements will always be limited to his inability to keep his turnovers down; bad court vision. He CAN carry games based on his ISO ability. Which is his main strength. But he forgets that one so ever important tool: a brain! And you need that to unite the TEAM and grow beyond just a mediocrity.

    As far as my "make worse" comment. Oh, boy. You will get to see how well Yao and MoT's game will improve by two competent PG (Ward and Lue). And thoes guys are just role playing PGs! Francis "makes worse" the team concept as well. Which ties directly into what I said before about SF being unable to "unite" the team. This is something that Ward/Lue will do quite well.

    A franchise building a team around SF is just pointless (pun not intended!). He's not that type of player. He brings positives, but he brings too many negatives for a "max contract," a "turnover prone PG" and postion of "leader."


    P.S. Do you think that Francis will have better luck in the East? The East has improved over the last few years. Too bad for Francis.
     
    #34 DavidS, Oct 11, 2004
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2004
  15. wizardball

    wizardball Member

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    Gaines...... i think HE will be a steal.... i don't think they gave this kid a chance.....i have seen him play in college.....he was not an above average player....but hey there have many of those types.

    the deal was good for BOTH teams....therefore, sorry no steal of a deal.....Francis-Cat-Cato were'nt gonna take us anywhere further....the francis-Ming was'nt working becuase Francis would be better with an offense which does'nt involve dumping in the post....Orlando WILL make the playoffs in the east easily....which means they got a steal tooo....so both teams are happy:D
     
  16. wizardball

    wizardball Member

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    Edit....*"Gaines WAS an above average player"*
     
  17. Willis25

    Willis25 Member

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    my bad
     
    #37 Willis25, Oct 11, 2004
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2004
  18. DavidS

    DavidS Member

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    I see see the site. But your link wont load.
     
    #38 DavidS, Oct 11, 2004
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2004
  19. Oski2005

    Oski2005 Member

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    :rolleyes:

    Using your logic, can any trade ever be called a steal?

    People say a trade is a steal when one team gets the better of the other.

    This trade was a gift. The Rocket's didn't out do the magic, they got lucky that Tracy wanted to come here and only here.
     
  20. Texas Stoke

    Texas Stoke Member

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    The game last night has me stoked about the upcoming season!
     

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