There will be time for those discussions. However, I'm not engaging today. Today, I'm watching the returns and thinking about the future... and history.
The Most High rules over the kingdoms of the world. He gives them to anyone he chooses— even to the lowliest of people. For all authority comes from God, and those in positions of authority have been placed there by God. (Daniel 4)(Romans 13)
did you read this from Chuck Colson??? really a great editorial that was in Christianity Today. http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2008/october/22.150.html I have been surprised by the number of Christians who have given up on politics this year. "I don't like either candidate, so I'm staying home," some say. I get fed up with the vain posturing and empty promises, too. But not voting is not an option—it's both our civic and sacred duty. Voting is required of us as good citizens and as God's agents for appointing leaders. How do we go about choosing the best candidates? Not by pulling a partisan lever—that's knee-jerk ideology. Christians live instead by revealed truth, never captive to any party. Thus, the best place to go for wisdom is not the candidates' websites, but the Bible. Moses' father-in-law, Jethro, advised him to appoint as rulers "able men" who "fear God, men who are trustworthy and who hate a bribe." The standard is competence and integrity. Later, God ordered Samuel to pick Saul, who "shall save my people from the hand of the Philistines." This passage reminds us of Paul's teaching in Romans: Government's role is to wield the sword to preserve order and restrain evil. So we should seek leaders best able to do that and to pursue justice. Today, God no longer chooses our leaders directly (although some of us wish he did, if only to spare us the years-long political campaigns). We live in a democracy, so God entrusts to us the job of choosing leaders he will anoint. (Deuteronomy 1:1213 shows us that democratic principles go directly back to the Old Testament.) Like Samuel, we are commissioned to choose leaders of competence, virtue, and character. That's why not voting or rejecting candidates because they are not perfect on some biblical or political score sheet is a dereliction of our trust. So is voting for a candidate simply because he is a Christian—startling as this may sound. Rather than checking on the candidates' denomination, we should look for the ablest candidate. Martin Luther famously said he would rather be ruled by a competent Turk—that is, a Muslim—than an incompetent Christian. In casting a vote, judgment should ultimately be guided by what we perceive to be the common good, a term not often heard in today's special interestcharged political debates. Our founders understood this, which is why they used the term commonweal, or commonwealth. But today's politicians pander to special interests, as we saw last year when congressmen dumped over $13.2 billion into earmarks, paying off special pleaders. But if we look at politics from God's perspective, we see that he has a deep and abiding interest in all people being treated fairly. If God favors any "special interest group," it is the poor, the hungry, the unborn, the handicapped, the prisoner—those with the least access to political power. This is why we Christians should never allow ourselves to be, as the press has often characterized us, just another special interest group pleading for our agendas only. But if we were a special interest group, we would be lobbying for the dignity of all, especially those who can't always speak for themselves. So maybe a particular candidate isn't going to cut your taxes or vote for your favorite program, but the real question is, will he serve all the people, or only the loudest? After considering these criteria, if you are still tempted to stay home on Election Day, dust off your copy of The City of God, in which Augustine introduces us to the idea that we live in both the City of God and the City of Man. In describing them, he reiterated Jesus' teaching that while Christians live in the City of Man, they do not belong to it. We are like sojourners in a foreign country; our true home is the City of God. But Augustine also taught that if we are to enjoy the blessings of the City of Man, we must assume the obligations of citizenship. Instead of doing our civic duty out of compulsion, the Christian does it gladly, out of obedience to God and love of neighbor. Augustine's teaching also helps us to put the coming election into perspective. Some will be jubilant over the outcome, others bitterly disappointed. But regardless of the returns, the City of God endures. When Augustine was informed that his beloved city of Rome was in flames, his response was that the City of Man is built by man and can be destroyed by man, but the City of God is built by God and cannot be destroyed. On Election Day we should be the best of citizens, voting for the candidate best for all the people. And then the next day, after indulging in your celebration—or pity party—get busy working to advance God's kingdom in this earthly society.
Was there ever a president in the modern era (say 1900 to current) who had a father that was a national of another country? If not that should be mentioned as history.
I don't think that's fair to Bubbas. Nice "spade" line he got in there though. Must be a frightening morning. But that was not in good taste.
1. I do not believe that this election is split on pitting working against non working. I do not believe that the guberment has the right to "spread the wealth". 2. I asked a question about our founding fathers and you decided that the best way to spin your argument was to put words into my mouth. 3. I stated in a reply to DD that I agree some level of taxation is necessary to maintain our country. But I believe we are already WAY past what is fair. 4. Obviously Obama's plan is not socialism on a Marxist level but it certainly leans towards that end more than it leans towards capitalism which is what made our country great. 5. The claims about Obama and FRE are completely true, also true is the fact that the top 5 in terms of moneys from the FRE are all Democrats. McCain also never had any financial advisors that were instrumental in the FRE disaster. What if anything does anyone have to say about the fact that Obama sat in a church with an openly racist pastor for 20+ years? Thats not OK is it or.... well I guess it is. This guy that Obama hung out with that was a terrorist really did bomb people right? Is that OK? Obama really did get a home loan with an interest rate that normal citizens could never get from a felon, didn't he? Thats OK too right? Its not ok with me.
LOL! This is biterness. He will now insult everyone who voted for Obama. I thought we already went through this. There well be plenty of people that will vote for Obama because he's black just as there will be people voting against him because he's black.
President Barak Hussein Obama I kind of like the ring of that... Almost sounds foreign, doesn't it? Scary. Repeat it with me okie, President Barak Hussein Obama
- MY EDIT I believe in the responsibility to vote. All Christians have a responsibility to vote in line with what Mr. Colson wrote. I will vote today. My former post was a reminder that God can accomplish His plans through evil presidents and good presidents and everyone in between. I am not concerned one bit about Obama. I started praying for him today. I choose to think the best towards him. I am sincerely glad for him.
All my whining about being disgusted wit politics was simply my rambling. I have a responsibility to vote. I also plan to post seriously and thoughtfully here. I take this forum more serious now than I did a few weeks ago. Thanks for the good discussions we've had. This should be a glorious day for you!
Really? Observe: If progressive taxation is "spreading the wealth" and is therefore wrong, please direct your anger at the entire history of the US income tax. Please also direct your anger at Adam Smith, who advocated such a system. I made no argument other than that the founding fathers were searching for taxation with representation. There was nothing to spin - you chose the words that made you look foolish, not me. No argument. Socialist on a marxist level? What do you even mean? Have you read Marx at all? Regulated capitalism, coupled with massive social programs, made our country great. Read some history. Obama received $6000 in FRE PAC funds. McCain got 0. Obama got $120k from FRE employees. McCain got $21k. FRE lobbyists and board of directors (not considered employees) gave McCain $169k, and Obama 16k. Link 1 Link 2 Neither does Obama. McCain however, is being advised by Phil Gramm, who's neat little dergulatory package (signed by Clinton) did undeniably aid in this economic morass. No substance. Again. You lose. You are pathetic.
I feel so stupid for skimming this thread. okierock, take comfort in your hyperbole of talking points and ignorance. It will be very cold for you tonight. I'll make sure not to click on this thread again.
the thing that baffles me about the supporters of OBAMA is theyre all about his color not his beliefs heres why its wrong though, I come from a family with many small businesses so indeed Obama when he's elected is going to cause us a big problem here's why 1.obama wants to tax a man who makes 1M/year 125K more per year, now that rich man cannot go open another small business and create more jobs for lower income people, I know my father has attempted to open 1 new business a year this past decade. 2.Alot of small businesses have excess workers they don't really need but they have bc they have excess cash right now, if all the new cash raised starts being taxed hard employees of small businesses are going to be let go because owners have a bottom line, a certain way of life they want to live and even my dad said I have to choose,"do I want my family to live the same lifestyle as before or do I fire a few useless workers i could previously afford?" 3.Obama wants to withdraw from iraq? people sit back for a second, i agree it was a dumb war but we cannot pull out, you know why? history repeats itself and 25 years ago we went to afghanistan and gave osama bin laden his weapons, yes osama was on our side we pulled out, his men got slaughtered and osama developed a mega-hatred for us......fast forward, we pull out of iraq, people get slaughtered by insurgents, 1 guy has boiling rage for america and 20 years later comes back to inflict pain on us, i dont wanna see that 4.People need to work hard and just make money dont expect it from obama "sharing our piece of the pie with you", my father came to america when he was 22 with $50, he worked as janitor,hot dog stand,jewelry salesman,gas station attendant, etx and now he he has created a good life, it takes hard work and thats all, all these people dont have that drive but obama taxing those that did is very unamerican with all that said I think you know who got my vote btw i dont agree with mccain leaving my generation with tons of debt as Im only 27 but Ill take that rather than have lower income people be jobless bc of obamas higher taxes
