Ah yes, so now we pivot from "Dennis Schroder, real PG" to "It doesn't matter, I just want to hate" That's fair. Kind of expected really. Like I said, I know Jalen Green fans want to give up on the 21 year old....while constantly simping for the 20 year old who is objectively worse at literally everything.....and I get that you guys will go to the grave making excuses.....but again, Rockets fans and certainly the organization, aren't burdened with that ridiculous bias. All of the Rockets' young players need to improve to reach their potential, but that doesn't mean you give up on the 21 year old PG or the 20 year old SG who is objectively worse at everything. KPJ arguably has the highest ceiling on the entire team right now, there's simply no valid reason to suggest giving up on him.
That's not a valid comparison, KPJ has 67 total starts in his career, Green already has 47. Even if you just go by total minutes logged, KPJ has about a year and a half worth of NBA experience and he's never been pushed like the Rockets are pushing Green. Even then, I'd be thrilled if halfway through next season Green had developed his game as well as KPJ has. I don't think there's much chance that this time next season Green is a 37% 3 point shooter who can be the primary ball handler on an NBA team AND play solid defense.
Green is 2nd to last in the NBA in WS/48 KPJ is 4th to last in the NBA in WS/48 Green is 3rd to last in the NBA in Box +/- KPJ is 12th to last in the NBA in Box +/- Green is last in the NBA in TPA KPJ is 16th to last in the NBA in TPA They currently are both terrible NBA players with varying degrees of future upside. Based off what he showed last year KPJ has been a huge disappointment. Based on being drafted #2, Green has been a huge disappointment. Rabble rabble rabble
Well you're the one who brought it up. I don't think it's totally fair to say "can be the primary ball handler on an NBA team" when the team is the worst team in the NBA. Like, anybody can be "the primary _______" on a team if you're fine with winning less than 20 games. I'm just not impressed with KPJ overall, he hasn't met expectations and I'm pretty bummed about it. I'm not ready to give up on him yet, but we are definitely nearing that territory. He is not much better now than he was in his rookie year, and he is definitively worse than he was last year - he's regressed in a lot of important areas. That's not a good trajectory. Jalen now is probably worse than KPJ ever was, but his trajectory appears to be upward. It's a small sample, but it's all we've got. So as long as he continues to trend upward we shouldn't give up on him. But, as I said, if Jalen sucks in year 3, and is actually worse than he was in year 2, I'd probably be fine pulling the plug at that point too.
I agree that he isn’t a 1. He isn’t efficient at any position and while has some skill and God given athletic ability he isn’t really great at anything. This has been his problem. To me he tries to do too much on the court instead of focusing on a few important things. Too much concern about holding the ball with fancy hesitation-crossover-behind the back moves and side step pull up threes that ultimately lead to nothing but shaves off 4-5 seconds off the clock or a TO. Focus. He needs to focus on attacking the paint immediately when he has an opening, finishing, and using the whole half court to find team mates continuing his dribbles instead of stopping to a halt.
He definitely deserves a further look can he be a top 20/30 player ?? That’s still TBD he’s got incredible shot making talent and shows some defensive chops . I like him at the 3 , green at the 2 , and Tate at the 1 . Then Jabari and sengun 4/5 leggoooo
The problem with KPJ is that we are trying to fit him into the mold of Luka, Harden, Lebron in a heliocentric offense system. The problem is that in order to run those type of offence, the ball handler literally needs to be the elite of elites in terms of scoring, passing and reading the defense. KPJ cannot do any of that at a high level. The only saving grace this season has been his improved 3 point shot and defensive effort. He is a very inefficient 1 v 1 player, he doesn't have the first step to get by his man consistently, nor does he have a consistent layup package at the rim. That's why we see our offense bog down when he over dribbles and the defense never commits an extra defender to him because he is easily shut down 1 on 1. That combined with limited vision and average passing fundamentals just makes him look really bad statistically. I don't think KPJ is a bad player, I just don't think we are using him correctly. It's a fad to run the Luka/Harden type of offense, and everyone is looking for that guy. There's a reason why Cade is drafted so high, because everyone wants another Luka. When KPJ gets to put his head down and attack, or get open for catch and shoot 3's, he has performed much better.
No, not just anyone can be the primary ball handler on an NBA team.....even the worst one. For example, Jalen Green can't. If you want to compare the players, make it a fair comparison, that's all I asked. KPJ right now has the NBA experience Jalen Green will have this time next year.... will Jalen Green have developed his game as much by then as KPJ has now? Almost certainly not.... but it won't be time to give up on Green either. I just find it funny how fans of a guy who has been an absolute dumpster fire this season would be almost exclusively the harshest critics of a player who is only a year older but is significantly ahead of him in development. It's just weird.
Greatness, his ability to break others down and attack the basket is special...he is not consistent though, that takes work. DD
End of the day I think that KPJ is on a positive trajectory. He is, at worst, an average starting point guard in the NBA with the needle pointing upward as a 21 year old in his first season at the 1. I think he is every bit as good as Lonzo Ball (at 21 y.o.) who currently helms one of the top teams in the eastern conference playing with a guy that Green favors a lot in my mind. So that can work too.
I can't see KPJ as a starting PG working out in the long term. I'd keep him on as a 6th man but we all know he wouldn't accept that. I fully expect Stone to make a dumb move and extend him.
Using advanced stats for rookies on terrible tanking teams is just - and I can't stress this enough - a terrible idea. Those stats are almost explicitly designed to quantify winning impacts - for teams that are actively not trying to win it's not nearly as meaningful. It's also really dumb to try to split hairs between the 330th player in the league and the 320th. Look at Josh Giddey - he ranks below Usman Garuba in Box +/- - that's just nonsense, everybody knows Giddey is much better. The reason why is becuase he plays lots of minutes on a bad team so he gets penalized. The Rockets only have a single player (Wood) who is even close to the median of qualified players in BPM, literally everybody else is in the bottom 25% of the league among qualified players. Like if you play John Wall and the Rockets stay with a more veteran oritented team - keeping Olynyk, and that features Green as a sixth man - his plus minus no doubt goes way up! But, man that would be f-king dumb as sh-t and long term it probably would be a terrible idea.
You're the one cherry picking stats. Kevin Porter Jr PER 2020: 10.8 2021: 12.5 2022: 11.8 KPJ has regressed, or at best, hasn't made a leap in improvement as a basketball player. If Jalen Green is below 12 PER by his 3rd season, then he will be a bust. Jalen Green has already improved miraculously in-season so unless he randomly stops getting better, Green will be the obvious better player by 2023.
Not all point guards are alike, Lonzo is no longer used as a primary ball handler in a half court offense. He's morphed into a spot up shooter that mostly run fast breaks, and defers ball handling to Demar and Lavine. I feel like most of the league is moving away from having a pg that just pounds the ball to the ground. Most teams now have shared ball handling duties with the exception to a few elite players. KPJ's future at pg is bleak imo, but I think his future as a ball handling wing is bright
you’re just rambling nonsense now Idgaf what Schroder is doing…u brought him up thinking u were making some kind of point…u mentioning Schroder is irrelevant KPJr is about to enter his 4th season, so u bringing up rookie Jalen Green is also irrelevant this thread is about KPJr…stay on topic when you’re quoting me
When they are on the same team and the conversation is constantly pitting one against the other, I think it’s just fine. I didn’t use the numbers to claim that they are in fact the worst and 4th worst players in the league. Just that they have been terrible impact players, two of the worst. And yes other factors than your own play can change those numbers.
Each of them had a stretch of great numbers at times but it did not contribute much to winning. Remember the 7 game winning streak happened without Green. KPJ was part of 5 wins in the 7 game winning streak and was part of another 5 wins (10 wins).......overall not enough while Green was part of 8 wins overall out of 47 games played respectively. Green actually played 6 more games than Kevin Porter after missing out on one month due to his hammy.
What's that got to do with both dropping 50 points bro. Nice try to deflect though. Just didn't work. Kind of like all those times when KPJ drives and just picks up his dribble with no idea what he's going to do next. Nice try. Just doesn't work.
