The offensive has started ..the battle of Portland

I dont watch any tv news so it makes no difference to me, but yes i believe Fox News is closer to the center than MSNBC, CNN, or OANN. In your opinion why do independent households watch Fox News more than the others?

 

Independents don't watch much of any of these news outlets and they only watch Fox at a slightly higher rate and if you combine CNN and MSNBC those numbers are probably greater than the Fox viewership.

Fox is basically the only game in town for a specific viewer where left leaning folks have multiple outlets.

How can you say Fox is closer to center if you don't watch any TV news?

That seems odd.

 

when they go low we go high.

 

what specific viewer is that? independents?

because the data backs my claim.

 

We've heard people claim that they are supporting this to make Trump look bad. We've heard that Biden and the Democrats are on the side of "Antifa". Do you think those arguments are disingenuos?

 

I was responding to a post that said that there were people trying to steal flags and threw unidentified liquids on the counter protesters. I don't think that was smart. I don't agree with the response but actions by either side to provoke and inflame the other side I would not say are the actions of "good guys."

 

Why are you playing dumb?

You know exactly what the specific viewer is

What data are you using?

Because a slightly more number of independents watch Fox?

 

So you think people shooting paintballs and spraying pepper spray are the same as flag stealing and unknown liquid throwing even forgetting the fact that one side planned to do those things?

 

I didn't say they were the same. That doesn't mean that I don't think the ones deliberately provoking the counter protesters are good guys. Clearly the response is violent and disproportionate doesn't excuse that it was stupid to provoke them.

This is what I mean that there is a problem with how we talk about this issue. I don't see this as a zero sum morality but see this is a dangerous cycle. Just because one group started it or planned it doesn't make the other group anymore noble.

 

The other poster saw it as zero sum and you agreed with him, just wanted some clarification.

I don't disagree that any group is more noble than the other but there is also a problem of equating things as the same or whataboutism.

At the end of the day we one group traveled and brought with them paintball guns and pepper spray to use at this event it was premeditated and I don't see how in any way those 2 things can be thought of as equal.

It lets those instigators off the hook when they got exactly what they wanted.

 

you seem to see (apologies if i'm misrepresenting your views) this as a confrontation between BLM and trump supports (by whatever name you wish to call them).

what role does Antifa play? is there overlap between BLM and Antifa?

sincere question.

 

It's a nonlethal deterrent to someone stealing your property and assaulting you. What do you suggest the victims do?

 

So you think it was deterrent from them stealing a moving truck?

Da ****?

Where do y'all come from?

 

Maybe he did see it as a zero sum morality game but if you see in my original post I pointed out how the people in the caravan had bad intentions and came in looking for trouble.

But again you keep on saying that I’m seeing as they are the same or equal. They are not and again I think this gets back to the problem with this issue. Deliberately provoking someone especially who is armed is dumb and frankly taking the bait offered. Shooting back even with a paint gun is is worse.

Sadly with this situation we know it didnt end with paintballs and a man is dead because of this whole situation is out of hand. Was that man a victim? Was it an appropriate response to use live ammo in response to paint balls? You see what I’m getting at. This is turning into a cycle of violence.

 

I don’t know. I don’t claim to be a member of Antifa or BLM and from what I’ve seen I can’t tell who is what who are opposing the people in the caravan. I know those are Trump supporters in the caravan because they are waiving Trump flags.

It’s a logical presumption that they are at least sympathetic towards BLM since these protests started over and are sustained by the killing of unarmed black men. That said I don’t know for sure and I’m judging them less by what they might stand for and what their actions are.

 

I will state again that paint balls aren’t non lethal. They are less than lethal. They can take eyes out, cause contusions, and tear skin and cause concussions.

Again there is a reason why you have to wear protection when doing things like paint ball wars.

 

Whose property is being stolen? Trumpsters come into an area and open fire with paint guns and spray against protestors to stop them from stealing their what exactly????

No, it's assault and just as someone punches you gives you the right to pull your gun in self defense, then someone has the right to fire bullets back at these Trumpsters by you guys own gun-nut logic.

You can't have it both ways. It' can't only be self-defense when it's a Trump white Republican involved.

 

Are you denying a flag was stolen and burned and the Portlanders assaulted the Trumpers with an unknown liquid?

Paintballs aren't lethal. Nobody has died from a paintball.