except it wasn't a music video....it was a 'snitches get stitches, stop snitching' video. not that i care, i'm just saying. but anyways, i hate the people who are 'shocked' at this kind of stuff. power rangers is more violent than this fight was, and peple act like this is bad for the nba. it gives the nba attention and the nba was the lead story on sportscenter over a good saturday night football game. this is not in any way bad publicity, if anything, people get more interested in the game cuz of stuff like this. so the 'shock' and 'horribleness' of an nba fight is way overblown and frankly, B.S.
I totally agree. as a matter of fact, outside of this, I've never understood why he has such a bad rep.
Kim, I certainly agree that the NBA is different today. Anyone who's watched the league for a few decades can see that. Whether it is better or not is up to the individual to decide. "The ideas of sportsmanship are different. Trying to hurt people was accepted back then, according to the classic games and shows I've seen." I just have to disagree with this, however. You seriously think there is a higher level of sportsmanship today, then there was then? And that players in the NBA thought it was accepted behavior to "hurt people?" (of course, you mean other players) I just don't think that is true. It was a rougher game, because so much contact was allowed, and there was far more pushing, shoving, hand checks, elbows flying, and yes, fighting than you see today. But no one thought it was OK to hurt another player. A flagrant foul that could wreck a players knee, and the like, was looked upon as being as bad as it is in today's NBA. Just because you had more physical play doesn't mean hurting other players was considered part of "doing business." It wasn't. Not what I would consider hurting a player, which is giving them a serious injury. You were more apt to get a fat lip, but that's another thing entirely. Back then, the overwhelming number of NBA players came from a college program, where I would argue that they learned more about sportsmanship than the players out of high school, or with one year of college are learning today. Heck, one could argue that there was more sportsmanship in the game then than there is today.
is fighting a lack of sportsmanship, because I certainly agree, the showboating, dunking and yelling is alot more prevelant now. but the physical nature of the game has decreased. some would argue that yesterday's players were tougher.
There's a little of both. There was far less high flying back then, so undercuts or tackles like the one that caused last night to erupt weren't as likely to take place. But it was a much dirtier game. Grabbing shorts on fast breaks, intentional cheap shots to punish little guys driving the lane, etc. Guys genuinely disliked each other back when a lack of free agency generated serious rivalries. Today, guys are much more buddy buddy, seeing as players rarely stay in one place more than 4 years at a time. Aside from a few guys like Bruce Bowen and Reggie Evans, dirty play has gone by the wayside. Not many guys care that much about the game that they'll get physical or nasty (as opposed to the NFL). On the flipside, showboating and trashtalking has flooded the league. So many players are headcases that only care about the name on the back of the jersey and getting their highlights. So there's a little of both. The league is less dirty but it's also less mature. Evan
I don't have to do any better than Chris Sheridan and Mike Breen. And if anyone wants to see real "bias," check out the thread Clutch posted from the day Isiah was hired to run the team.
we'll just have to agree to disagree. btw, I respect your journalistic credentials. no hard feelings.
I didn't watch the NBA in the 80's (too young), so all I have to go on is ESPN Classic, NBAtv, and countdown shows and online stuff. I guess saying Sportsmanship is "different" nowadays is more accurate than saying Sportsmanship is "better". But from what I've seen, yeah, I think people tried to hurt other players. I remember some Boston Detroit game where Parish literally punched Lambeer in the head during a play. And Lambeer got called for a foul and the Garden was loving it. The announcers said the game before Lambeer punched Larry Bird or something. I'm not talking about breaking legs here, but fighting was a lot more prevalent back then, and it wasn't this wussy fighting of nowadays. The fighting back then was real, and in real fights you're trying to hurt the other guy. Even after Rudy T was almost killed, he was still yelling in the hallway at Kermit "I'm going to kill you" and I think Kermit was yelling that at Rudy too...it's all in Feinstein's book. So, I'm no expert on 80's bball, and while we can disagree on the intent of hurting people, I think most of us agree that Isiah is from old school bball. And not all of oldschool bball rules are accepted as appropriate for today. I'm not talking about breaking legs here. But you know...football hurt. Like put him down to the ground hard and make him think twice never to come into the paint. That's not necessarily bad in my book, but it's just totally not how the NBA operates nowadays. A hard foul today is just one that prevents the AND1, and sometimes it doesn't even work. A hard foul back then is a flagrant 1 today.
I'm just not going to move from my stance that an abject lack of leadership in the minutes leading up to the brawl contributed nearly as much as an overexcited 22-year old rookie's hard foul. And I discredit Karl for this just as much. We know Carmelo is a fool, but does he react the same way having been told that a price was on his head -- even though nothing specifically happened to him? Chris Sheridan was the AP's top NBA guy for, I think, something like 11-12 years before ESPN gobbled him up. He was hired to produce the same sort of near-baseless (rumor-fed) trade speculation that Chad Ford created on a daily basis, but thus far has passed on sinking that low. To me, his credentials cannot be questioned -- and if he tells me (us) he heard it, I believe him. Mike Breen as well; though Knick fans will point to his supposed "bias" because he rips on the team for 48-minutes a night.
There is no argument. The was more sportsmanship in prior decades than there is now. Too many NBA players (especially some of the young ones) have punk/rogue attitudes and maybe much of it is due to less college being involved. And some of the youngsters have huge chips on their shoulders as if the league owes them something, instead of the other way around. They are propped up as special phenoms from very early in their lives and their whole perspective gets distorted. In a completely different sense, the players that make the NBA are victims of this puppy mill just like the thousands that get thrown in the garbage can after they don't make the NBA.
<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/wZDtwiC1j8U"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/wZDtwiC1j8U" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object> Everyone remembers #1, but who remembered that Van Gundy had all that hair?
well considering people were still fighting all the time, apparently they didn't work. i guess those were mature fights back then. and i don't see how somene can say they're a lifelong nba fan and then say things like this give them pause considering, as a lifelong fan, you must've seen plenty of fights and many worse than this. hell, we immediately got 2 youtube clips of fights worse than this (well dream/kupchak may have been slightly better but it was still close) and i doubt youtube has all the fights in nba history. that didn't even include knicks/heat or that lakers/celtics fight where rambis or somebody clotheslined mchale or bird and started a brawl. and who knows what all fights the bad boys got in. it seems to me that the harsher penalties that have been around for the past 10 years or so (automatic suspensions for even throwing a punch, auto suspension for leaving the bench, etc) have done a pretty good job curtailing fighting. if anyone thinks you're ever going to legislate away heat of the moment fights between a bunch of testosterone-fueled, 20-something year old males full of bravado (which is all sports is) then i would say you're crazy. the punishment should fit the crime, not always just be a punishment to "make a statement." i mean i guess we could kill everyone who shoplifts and no one would ever shoplift again, but it would be kind of out of line with the crime.
i don't think they were any tougher, the toughness has mostly just been legislated away or we've become a little more enlightened (or however you want to put it, dirty play isn't tolerated like it used to be in any sport). if today's players played back then, they would've been committing the hard fouls and cheap shots of yesteryear and if older players played now they wouldn't be doing those things. and i don't get why people always act like 80s ball was so physical. espn classic certainly doesn't encompass every 80s game, but post play was no where near as physical in those games as it was in the mid-90s and up through the early 00s. and neither was perimeter play. now maybe there were more flagrant type fouls delivered sparsely over the course of the game, but the overall physicality just wasn't the same. it wasn't like the 60s clips you see where no one even bothers bodying up, but it wasn't like it was a few years ago. i mean did anyone see that pacers/pistons playoff game that finished 73-67 and had the tayshaun block on reggie miller at the end? that was a freakin' war. i mean if you didn't literally tackle someone in the post, they weren't going to call it. and perimeter play was as physical as anything i've ever seen. you never see games like that from 20 years ago and i just don't get why people keep acting like you do and talking about how rough the game was back then. guys got bigger and stronger and rules on contact kept getting more lax. however, they finally instituted the new rules to try and give back some of the gains defense had made to the offense. it was getting unfair to expect people to take the poundings they were and still expect efficient offense. and even though it doesn't seem like it watching yao, i think even post play has gotten better. the rules seem to make everyone think no one can get touched now and that every time anyone drove the lane in the past someone punched them in the face and then flagrant fouled them, but that just isn't accurate. there might be slightly less contact now with the new rules but it's not night and day.
No doubt about it - Anthony will get the biggest suspension, and he desrves it IMO. Just about everything else was heat of the moment, but Anthony's punch was after the fact and a b**** move. He'll get nailed. Sorry nuggets4, but he deserves it. One can only hope that r****d Nate gets nailed too.
Anyone remember this fight between Yao and desmond mason? <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/VL67aUjNC3s"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/VL67aUjNC3s" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
For what it's worth, here's an official release from Carmelo. http://www.nba.com/nuggets/news/anthony_statement_061217.html I have nothing against him and realize people make mistakes, I'm willing to forgive. The guy is doing really well this year too, 31PPG on over 50% shooting? Unheard of, I respect his game.
The first two paragraphs are exactly what I was hoping for. Either Melo realized what he did was inexcusable or his handlers convinced him this is what needed to be released in a statement. Hopefully the former.
