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The Near Certainty of Anti-Police Violence

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by HamJam, Jul 13, 2016.

  1. HamJam

    HamJam Contributing Member

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    I saw this article in the Atlantic by Ta-Nehisi Coates called The Near Certainty of Anti-Police Violence, and since it echoes many of the sentiments expressed by Miss Alabama and by the KJ tweet (and since we really should stop polluting the GARM with our politics talk), I've decided to post the article here for discussion.

    Long story short, while I am not voicing support for the killing of the 5 cops in Dallas, the anger in the black community is real. And unless the legitimate reasons for that anger are seriously addressed and dealt with, I think we should expect more violence towards police.

    And, honestly, while this article is talking about the black communities anger at police, I think we should all be angry. People talk about all the white people and latinos that police kill and abuse also, but that doesn't make me less mad about the treatment of police towards black people, it makes me more incredulous that people of every color aren't angry about the degree which this country has become a police state.
     
  2. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

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    Sounds like either a self-fulfilling prophecy, an overstatement of other blacks' predilection for violence versus conflict resolution and deescalation, or an indulgence of some white liberals using black issues as an outlet for their own sense of rebellion.
     
  3. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    Our country isn't a police state. You do realize the vast majority of the police are afraid to do their jobs in full for fear of getting punished? They do not have carte blanche contrary to what you believe. Now this isnt to say our police are not riddled full of fools and idiots and need better training and pay.
    In comparison to more serious issues our nation faces, police brutality fall pretty low on the totem pole. The real issue is our media fanning the flames and trying to encourage racial issues.

    I'm not trying to justify the killing, however in nearly every case the person involved was associated with a violent crime. While fools like you sit on your high horse and fan the flames of hate, these are ordinary people like you and I trying to protect the city. Perhaps you should go out and arrest some of these violent criminals who would hurt/kill you to avoid arrest. Be sure to keep your emotions and adrenaline in check and think very clearly during the entire process. But I highly doubt you can do this.
     
  4. SamFisher

    SamFisher Virtuous
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    No point in arguing with this, but this explains why a lot of people just don't get it - if you're black, and dealing with the police, you are 99.9% likely to be "associated with a violent crime" whatever taht means, because your skin is black, so...bang bang, you dead.
     
  5. HamJam

    HamJam Contributing Member

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    If policing is impossible, then we shouldn't police so much. The issue isn't that we've failed to breed a group of super humans who can keep cool under pressure, not abuse power, and not delve into corruption -- the issue is that we've created a level of policing (especially since the drug war) that can't be done without a large amount of collateral damage.

    Calling this a police state isn't just about police abusing people and killing people and getting away with it, it is about the incarceration rate, search and seizure, putting people in jail for debt, funding municipalities using over fining and policing on poor communities, and things like stop and frisk. It is the close relationship between police and the criminal justice system that allows them to get away with things. It is that funding for prisons is growing faster than funding for schools. It is the ever increasing militarization of our police departments.

    But, feel free to ignore these issues, uncivilly impugn the character of those who disagree with you, and act like the anger of poor and minority communities disproportionately affected by these issues is unfounded. The result will be more violence.

    As JFK said, "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
     
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  6. HR Dept

    HR Dept Contributing Member

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    Hell of a post.
     
  7. London'sBurning

    London'sBurning Contributing Member

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    Wrong. If we lived in Mexico where cops are getting killed for doing their job by the cartel I'd agree with you that they're too afraid to do their job. It's not like that at all though. You know this.
     
  8. HillBoy

    HillBoy Contributing Member
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    All these people who want to believe there's no problem with policing should look at this Frontline episode "Policing The Police" http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/policing-the-police/.

    It focuses on the Newark Police Dept one of the adopters of "Broken Windows Policing" that messed up NYC and how they are trying to change the way they police their city. The policing we see is selective, harsh and just terrible as far as its impact on police community relations. Those who want to believe that there is no problem, that it's being somehow "made up" or exploited by groups like the BLM, are the ones in need of the reality check this program provides.
     
  9. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    I completely agree with you on this. This has less to do with cops on the street and more about politics. Blaming the police for doing their job is no different than blaming the barista at Starbucks for charging you $6.00 for a mediocre coffee. They both have great employees and bad employees. Lets refrain from putting the brunt of this issue on the actual cops on the street.
     
  10. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    Sorry, this is not "about politics". And I hope it was unintentional that you implied that HamJam suggests this... here's his actual post:

    These are not politics, but real problems in the system that need to be addressed and improved upon. No one is "putting the brunt of this issue on the actual cops on the street" but the law enforcement and justice systems need to be examined and improvements are needed for everyone's sake.
     
  11. txtony

    txtony Member

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  12. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    I guess I didn't really think of this as a bone of contention. I can't speak for others but I always hear criticism of the police as criticism of the law enforcement system, not the choices or performances of individual police officers. If there is a problem with officers, it's not because of their personal failing but because of problems in the culture, the training, the procedures, the policy, the systems, or the law. And, to get better outcomes, we want to change the culture, training, procedures, policy, systems, and law. It doesn't make sense to ask each police officer to pull himself up by his own bootstraps and just be "better."
     
  13. Cold Hard

    Cold Hard Member

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    The root cause of this law enforcement issue (and many other issues, including US politics) is systemic. The barrel itself is rotten (i.e. corrupt). A handful of fresh apples in the barrel is unlikely to purify it. It's more likely that those fresh apples will eventually become rotten themselves. The entire barrel needs a complete overhaul. Unfortunately, most of the elite influential people in this country have no interest in actually improving/fixing the system. They like the system just fine the way it is; the status quo benefits and enriches them.

    The mainstream media also deserves some blame.
     
  14. HamJam

    HamJam Contributing Member

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    Just saw another articile that is very pertinent to this issue:

    After Dallas Shootings, Police Arrest People for Criticizing Cops on Facebook and Twitter

    So, will we see KJ in jail? Doubtful of course, but people are literally being put in jail for that kind of stuff now. That's beyond the pale to me. People are so angry about the police state nature of our society and the negative impact on their communities, and so they are crying out with that anger, and the response is to lock more people up for doing so.

    Yeah, I mean, I don't know what to say about this beyond that I think we are headed towards some dark days and I hope folks are preparing for it.
     
  15. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine
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    The whole system is rigged. Corrupt cops investigate other corrupt cops with corrupt DA's deciding whether they're going to prosecute the people they rely on for successful prosecutions. It's a powder keg waiting to explode and the head in the sand ambivalence of a lot of people is walking us right into an inevitable situation that will rock the core of this country.
     
  16. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    Saying Johnson was a hero doesn't sound arrestable, but saying you're going to destroy police headquarters kinda does. Probably none of those arrested really meant it in a literal way, but it's not a new thing to arrest people for overt but empty threats of violence.
     
  17. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Contributing Member

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    Threaten officers, get arrested.

    What an incredible time to be alive.
     
  18. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    It reminds me a of a scene in the West Wing from one of the earlier seasons when the chief of staff is interrogating a terror suspect that is Muslim. The Muslim objects to being profiled for being Muslim and the Chief of staff replies "that's the price you pay for..." and then cuts himself off. The Muslim wants to know "for what?" but gets no answer.

    In this case, that's the price they pay for "being black." Any time these threads come up or these situations happen, the narrative will spin into statistics about black on black crime, black crime rates, etc. and the obvious implication is, well, obvious; the skepticism, the prejudice, the profiling, etc. is the price you pay for "being black."
     
  19. Mathloom

    Mathloom Contributing Member

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    You have to understand something about empire: when it's declining, this must happen. That's how empires work. They will not just give up. It is more likely that the powerful factions in your country will resort to increased unethical force than they are to accept defeat. That's what class warfare is, they will not give up on this even if it costs them their last penny. They have the power disease. Their power doesn't come from elections, and thus their weakness is not going to come from elections. If you think your government will never raise a hand on you, you're living in a dream world. They have executed Americans in the past, and they would do it more often if the stakes were raised.

    It's very simple. If the inequality continues to dominate, implosion is inevitable and I am shocked by how rapidly it's heating up, and what's scary is that it's creating reverberations around the globe.

    The only way to stop this is to grow up as a country and take back majority control of the democratic process. Sadly, that's also going to result in a lot of bloodshed but at least in that case you are on the defense together as a nation against the people who are screwing you.

    This stuff is not a policy change or two away from being just.
     
  20. okierock

    okierock Contributing Member

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    it reminds me of a corrupt congress and a corrupt FBI and a corrupt attorney general and a corrupt secretary of state getting away with felony actions...
     

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