I can only speak for myself but when I hear it come from a White person's mouth (no offense intended again) it only conjurs up thoughts of Kunta Kinte, being sprayed with water hoses, my fathers military stories, my grandfathers baseball playing days stories, being told that I look like a monkey by a little White kid, having my car thoroughly searched during a "routine traffic stop", my management collegues at work assuming that I can "dance like MC Hammer", etc. Do you ever have similar thoughts? This is what I was talking about being a "GREAT POINT". It is because I feel the same way when I hear the word and that word and that is why I feel it should not be spoken. I am biracial but I consider myself black and the rest of the world seems to put me in that category. I have had some of those same feelings so again, GREAT POINT!.
If I am discussing the nword with a black guy (or anyone else), then can I say the nword? I don't ever call anyone nword, but I still think I should be able to say it. To me the idea that we can just get rid of a certain word through suppression is crazy. A word is a verbal symbol and people will still be thinking it. If the day ever comes when we can all say nword freely, without hostile intent, then we will be liberated from the stigma attached to it. Being able to have talks like this will help us get us there.
This is got to be the most ludicruous point I have ever heard. I have never heard of anyone argue using the n-word as some kind of "priviledge" that blacks "enjoy" but non-blacks don't. Again, what is so difficult and so hard to understand about the difference in potency between a black person using the "n-word and a non-black person person using it? I am not a black person but it seems quite straightforward and clear to me. It has nothing to do with "priviledge" or "right" to use a word but the potency and context of when and how it is used. Whether intended to be racist or not, a non-black person using the word automatically has potential racist undertones behind it that makes the use of the word potent. Say you are a black person working in a company of mostly white people and a bunch of white guys comes over and try to "affectionately" use the word, the fact that the person saying it is not black is going cause tension because it POTENTIALLY could be racist. Maybe the white guys kidding around or maybe it's some kind of subtle racist intimidation? Now if a bunch of black guys do the very same thing, the potential for it to be racist isn't there at all so the racial tension won't be there. I suppose the word could be used in a hostile way but from a black person it would automatically never have racist undertones in it which is about 99% of the potency of the word. Nothing to do with "priviledge" or 'right" to use it. Is it really THAT hard to understand????
You're welcome. But you don't have to feel sorry for me. As a matter of fact, please don't (no offense, yet again). That's the reality in which I live and I've been conditioned for it. I embrace the challenges at this point. I will never use it as a crutch. That's what we call Black Pride (and no it's not our version of White Power for those who may get it confused). Racism is so subtle nowadays that it's almost useless to try to decipher when it exists. The company that I work for values a diverse work force and preaches the respect of the individual daily. That being said, I don't believe that there was any malice intended when my collegues suggested that I show them my "Hammeresque" dance steps. But being the only Black manager, I was offended. Did they know what they were saying? Probably not. But they did say it so obviously they linked me with being able to dance. Why would they do that? Hmm. Now I can't post on my favorite site without some of the guys on here wanting to be able to stand and call me N!gger too. At least the subtlety will have been removed. I guess it's time to put the Marvin Gaye "What's Going On" CD back into the rotation.
Just one final point I want to make about this "double standard" stuff. Whether or not it is a so-call "double standard" that blacks can use the "n-word" while non-blacks can't really depends on the "standard". If the "standard" is that no one should use a racist word, then I suppose it is a double-standard since one side can and another side cannot. However, if the "standard" is a more meaningful standard, namely, "no one should use a racist word if use of that word is used in a context that will cause others discomfort or make others potentially feel intimated or in fear", then it becomes quite clear that there is no double-standard at all. You can apply this same standard to everyone and some will be able to use the n-word in some situations while others not. In this case, since a non-black person using it may be contrued as being racist or trying to intimate regardless of intention when using it to address a black person, then he violates the "standard". However when a black person addresses another black person using this word, the racist element of the word evaporates (which is 99% of what makes the word odious) and so the use in that context does not violate the "standard". I think this is my last word on this topic but hope it makes sense and adds another way to view this issue.
.......break your bones. But words will never hurt..... .........unless of course it's that one word spoken at a less than ideal time. Now that person may see those sticks and stones again, which hurt, which brings us back to...........ahh forget it.
Slow down pg. I never said I wanted to use the word. I said I think everyone should be able to use any word, because I believe in free speech and am leery of censorship and where it can take us. I said that I do not think seperate rules should exist for different people. I am most certainly not a racist. I think everyone should be treated the same, because we are all the same. Race, nationality, gender, sexual orientation, hair color, if your name begins with a vowel, whatever, are all arbitrary differentiators when it comes to how we treat people. That is why I argue against a double standard, not because I want to call somebody n*****. Get it? You can have a private club that doesn't allow members of a certain race too. There are no legalized consequences of that either. It doesn't make it right. And I have written plenty of dumber things than that. My point is that there shouldn't be a double standard on any of them, not that a double standard should exist on all of them. No whites only drinking fountains, no women only gyms, no me only golf courses (this means you Augusta) and no black only words. How are we ever going to move past racism when we keep erecting barriers to seperate ourselves based on race.
I would never dream of being so rude. I am sad that you would feel the need to do whatever it is you're threatening, but that is neither here nor there. I never planned to. I'm sorry that you seem to dwell on so much of the negativity of the past. I'm also sorry that some of the same has been visited upon you in the present. No. I bet you assumed that I do though. Most of that is not fair. (Me feeling free to get gas and you growing up in a two parent home both seem perfectly fair to both of us, it would seem. It is also fair that someone who doesn't comply with the rules gets evicted, although that sucks for the kid.) All, re: the potency point Imagine a black person who was adopted and raised by whites. Now further imagine that those whites were racists. Couldn't that you black person have racist intentions in using the n-word? Be careful making assumptions like: I would prefer no one use racial slurs. I think they are devisive and set up barriers. This happens even when used only by the group they describe, because these social rules set us apart. I don't think that we should disallow the use of any word, by anyone. If someone wants to be an ass, that is their prerogative. The more enlightened among us will chose to refrain. I don't condone a violent response to any verbal stimulus without the direct threat of violence though. Finally, It causes me discomfort when anyone uses the n-word, no matter their skin color. Please refrain.
What exactly is your point??? Are you DENYING that there is less potency involved when a black person says it to another black person than when a non-black (especially white) person saying it??? Are you claiming that there are as many self-hating blacks that seek to destroy themselves and other blacks as there are non-blacks who feel this way? If so, then yeah, I guess if I were black the word would have potency regardless of who says it. But since the instance of the latter is indisputedly infinitely larger than the former, then it doesn't make sense to argue that there is no difference in potency. I simply don't understand why you keep trying to argue that there is no difference in potency when it seems to almost everyone but yourself that the difference is obvious and self-evident.
You know Moniker I apologize for being so harsh in my response, but it seems you keep arguing things just because you refuse to concede an argument. I keep thinking about one thread when you and I went round and round about the Beastie Boys putting out the best rap album ever.
It seems the people who are barking the loudest are the ones who find it self-evident. The silent majority though has soundly refuted this self-evidence with their votes in this thread's poll. That's the way it always works though.
There is no legislation or enforcement of this "rule". Anyone can use the word n!gger regardless of his race or intent. You seem to be making some ludicruous argument that it seems "unfair" that some people get the "right" to use it. But of course everyone has the "right" to use. It is just that for reasons that are obvious to everyone but yourself people will feel and respond differently depending on who and how it is used. That is the point I and others are making. The point is that from the point of view of the person on the receiving end of the word, the use of the word is not equal in all situations. Depending on who says it, how they say it it makes a difference. This is so beyond dispute that it is ridiculous to argue against this even though you keep trying to. The "fact" that the use of the "n-word" doesn't have the same potency in all situations doesn't necessarily argue that the word should even ever be used. But it is nevertheless indisputable that the word doesn't carry the same potency everywhere and at all times and regardless of who says it.
I don't understand your point. Are you also, like StupidMoniker, trying to say that the word has the same potency to the receiver regardless of who says it and how it is said??? The poll answer has nothing really to do with my point so how does it "refute" it? Surely one can feel that the word should never be used but at the same time understand the "self-evident" nature that the word has different potencies based on who says it and how it is said. For your info, I voted that it should never be used but I don't see how that vote "disputes" my own "barking".
I've looked through this thread, and I must have missed it. I've tried to find where StupidMoniker claims the word has the same potency to the receiver regardless of who says it and how it is said, but I must have missed it. If indeed he did say this........verbatim........then please accept my apologies. What I did see is that he's tried to argue that a culture that claims it's okay for it's members to call each other by a certain name while disapproving of outsiders calling them the same name is being divisive. The above seems like a fairly innocuous and (to use your phrase) self-evident opinion, but I think it's the crux of StupidMoniker's argument. If a fortyfive year old truck driving, skoal dipping, redneck calls you a nigg*r, I'm of the opinion that he's asking for an ass whooping, and I personally think you should be the one to administer it. But if an eight year old white kid calls an eight year old black kid on the playground a nigg*r, should the white kid get his ass kicked? If so, why? Because the white kid is too damn stupid to know better? Or Should he be spared because a few blacks are too damn stupid to know better than to call themselves something while expecting other people outside of their culture to use "respect" and not call them by the name they call themselves? Like I said at the beginning of this thread.....you can't have it both ways.
Sometimes I think some people go out of their way to point out that black people are being unfair with the most trivial things like the use of this word. As if to say, "blacks are always complaining about equal rights, but look they are so unfair because they use the N word amongst themselves, and get mad when another uses it to degrade them". This whole argument is just so trivial. And furthermore, I work on the same floor of my building as the C.E.O of the company, a white male, I work for. I'm the only black person on this floor. If I was in a meeting with others in my work environment, and I said, "my *****s and I went to a bar after work", do you really think I wouldn't here about it? If Jerome Greg, black channel 11 news anchor, on air said about a story,"oh Sylvester Turner, that's my *****", do you think he would be on the news the next day? So even this double standard argument is ridiculous. So all you people who think we blacks are getting away with something unfair, get over it. Its a social norm, just like holding the door open for a lady, somethings you just know to do, and know not to do. But since black people are the ones who are the ones getting the so called privilege, I really think that is the problem some people have.
See, this is part of the problem I have. You're implying that since I don't want to hear anyone use that word and think it's wrong for black people to use it, that somehow that makes me racist since I'm trying to take some so-called privilege away from black people. This word is a trivial issue but it is one that implants into young people that racism exists and that it is acceptable on some level. That is just wrong.
Pole recognized my point. I am sorry that you have not been able to grasp it, pgabriel. I never claimed that the word always had the same potency, just pointed out an example where a black person's use of the word could still be racist. The point is that it isn't about going out of my way to "point out that black people are being unfair" it is to point out when anyone is being unfair. If the topic where on whites only golf courses, women only basketball leagues, etc. I would (and have) point(ed) out those inequities as well. It is stupid to treat people differently based on anything but their actions. This is the 21st century, if we keep erecting artificial barriers, even on things as trivial as this, we will never be able to move past the bigotry that exists in our society.
Finally, I agree with you. This is why I started this thread pgabriel. I know that anybody has the right to use the n-word regardless of their race but there are those people out the that think only certain ones should get to use it and I wanted to see how the posters on the BBS felt, that's why I made up the poll. Like I have said before, I do not believe anybody should use it because it is a term that has been used forever to describe blacks and dark-skinned people in negative ways. I don't like hearing the word but just because I don't like it does mean only certain people have the right to use it. Anybody can use it but they will have to suffer the consequences much like what you have posted above. If you were to choose to use it in a meeting or something then that's your right but you have to face the fact that yo could and probably would be reprimanded just as if a Congress person used the word more than likely they will be asked or forced to resign. I know and realize that nobody is given the right to say it and others are not but I do realize that a vast number of people think this way and that is why I wanted and still do want others opinions on the subject, just as I have embraced yours. Thanks.
I wrote some people and I wrote so called privilege also. Why doesn't anyone respond to the point I made about me using the word at work or if a black news anchor said it on television?
