The Cat, and the Cat is the man! Great post Cat, I can tell you put some effort into making it crystal clear for the disillusionised, but nothing short of a wrecking ball will put some sense into the naysayers...I agree that Cuttino isn't perfect, but I can't really think of too many 2 guards I would rather have. He has improved every year. The real question is not will he get better this coming season but how much better will he get! That is the cool shoeshine!
I must say, Cato=Bum's analysis was MUCH more convincing. The fact that he said he preffered Parker over Francis is irrelevant. I don't see why you would make such a comment since people know how many people you prefer MoT and Collier over. People have their opinions. Instead of accusing other people of blind hatred, why don't you think about whther you have a blind love for his game? Personally, I think he's given the opportunities. He's been given the right coaching. The right teammates. Enough time. If mobley doesn't show a rapid increase in maturity or basketball IQ, then we should start thinking about another SG. Unfortunately, I can't stay in this debate long, because I'm not at home and won't bef or a while, but I'd like everyone to read over The Cat's posts, and count to themselves how many times he contradicted himself. This point has been made in his previous arguments too. I really appreciate a good debate, but not when one side is completely unwilling to budge and willing to bend the truth in their favour. If you're a PG, then 1 assists makes no difference. But when you're the SG, 1 assists makes a difference. It's not 1 assist. I's an assists, a few rebounds, a slightly better FG%, same minutes, and slightly fewer turnovers. Forget that Finley blew into another gear in the playoffs. Do you disagree that Mobley has to work on passing, shot-selection, maturity, D, rebounding, and team play to become as good as Finley has shown to be? Is that an unreasonable assumption really? Truth is, the only thing Mobley does better than Finley, is score, and that's not by so much. I love Mobley. I love the backcourt tandem. I love his work ethic, I love his heart, and I love his constant improvement. He's a great competitior. I don't get myself carried away though, I want more. Mobley's played 4 seasons. It's time he grows up and plays smart.
I must say, Cato=Bum's analysis was MUCH more convincing. The fact that he said he preffered Parker over Francis is irrelevant. I don't see why you would make such a comment since people know how many people you prefer MoT and Collier over. It really starts to show your colors when you support evidence with broad generalizations instead of actual facts. Cato=Bum stated exactly 2 facts in his entire post... Instead of accusing other people of blind hatred, why don't you think about whther you have a blind love for his game? I would, but when almost every single shred of evidence supports my viewpoint, I have a hard time seeing how the opposite is anything but blind hatred. Unfortunately, I can't stay in this debate long, because I'm not at home and won't bef or a while, but I'd like everyone to read over The Cat's posts, and count to themselves how many times he contradicted himself. This point has been made in his previous arguments too. When? The last time I was accused of such was last July, when I was in favor of resigning Mo Taylor. I changed my opinion of the guy after watching him play. What does that prove? Furthermore, there's not all that much editorializing in my argument. These are statistical facts. Whatever you think of my credibility has nothing at all to do with my post. It doesn't matter if they are presented by Clutch, Doc Rocket, or some newbie with one post... these facts are still the same. Attacking the poster is just a cheap way to avoid it. I really appreciate a good debate, but not when one side is completely unwilling to budge and willing to bend the truth in their favour. I feel the same way; despite almost every shred of statistical evidence pointing to the contrary, some people still are completely unwilling to budge and admit that Mobley is a good player.
Cat, according to your logic, a guy like Tim Duncan is "nearly" as good a shotblocker as Olajuwon as Hakeem "only" had 3.5 BPG to Duncan's 2.5 BPG. Comparing guys like Finley and Sczerbiak and A. Houston to Mobley is not a good comparison. Mobley handles the ball in the confines of the Rockets offense MUCH more than these guys do in their respective offenses. Garnett is Minn's clear go to guy, Nowitzki and Nash for Dallas, and Spree for NY. Mobley gets a lot more touches than any of the guards you named, plays more minutes, and gets the least amount of assists by far and probably has the worst assist/TO ratio. Throwing aside the stats, just by watching the games, it's pretty obvious that Cuttino does not set up his teammates with good shooting opportunities often. Most of the time he touches the ball it's a dribble or 2 and a pull up low% outside jumper. I'm in the camp that calls for Cuttino to become a 6th man. Long term, he should be option #4-5 on the Rockets behind Francis, Griffin, Ming, and possibly Nachbar. Unfortunately with his streetball, selfish mindset, I don't see him making the transition into a bench player, even though the team will be best off in that scenario. You just dont want to design your offense around a low % shooting, undersized, low bball IQ ballhog if you ever want to go places. Averaging 18 ppg on a horrible team does nothing for me. There's a ton of NBA players who pad stats on bad teams. Cat's one of em.
Interesting point pasox. I agree that Cuttino isnt perfect and still needs to iron out some parts of his game. I feel a major part of the reason Cuttino, and Francis for that matter, get caught in these situations is a lack of quality talent in the frontcourt. The Rockets didnt have any capable option out of the high post of low post last season that could draw some attention away from the guards and enable them to receive the ball in more scoring type situations. Also, they lacked a consistent outside shooter in the frontcourt with Taylor's injury and thus, the defense keyed in on the penetrating guards. Its very difficult to consistently find the openings and make a move quickly when the opposing defense can sag straight into the middle due to Kelvin Cato and Kenny Thomas's lack of perimeter shot and Eddie Griffin's highly inconsistent one as a rookie. My thinking next season is that Francis and Mobley wont have to face the stacked defenses they had to last season with the new additions. Yao Ming operating out of the high post and Mo Taylor able to do the same will draw one of the big players away from the middle of the floor. Also, I think this will enable Francis and Mobley to initially give up the ball and then receive it back in a more scoring position where they dont have to dribble dribble dribble, but instead can make a quick move to the hoop, pull up or initiate some other type of action. Its a little too early to give up on this backcourt tandem imo until they get a chance to play with a more quality frontcourt.
Great post, Cat. I'll sum it up with this quote from Magic head coach Doc Rivers... "Cuttino, he's a b*tch." He's a good SG - one of the more underrated SG in the league - and still coming into his own as a player. Improved decision making and support will only make him a better player.
The problem with comparing Mobley to Mercer as players is severalfold. For starters, would the Pacers have drafted Freddie Jones if they thought Mercer was their answer at SG? Surely you all don't think a raw rookie is better than Cuttino? 1. Over his career, Mobley has been the much better 3pt shooter. Mercer only attempted more than 50 3s this season and is a career 25.7% 3pt shooter. Mobley is a career 37% shooter, attempting nearly 400 3pt shots this year, with a low of 148 his rookie season - nearly 3 times Mercer's output this year. 2. Mobley, over the years, has continued to improve. Mercer has continued to hold steady, at best, with a gradual decline more likely. This season, he (Mercer) shot under 40% - a gradual decline from 45% his rookie season. Mobley shot a career high of 43.8% this year - up from 42.5% his rookie season and part of a gradual increase. His scoring output also reached a new high this year at 21.7ppg, again an increase from each of the previous seasons. Mercer's has fluctuated all over the place, hitting a relative low this year. 3. Mobley, not only being the better scorer, is the better defensive rebounder of the two, nabbing 0.6 def. rebs./game more than Mercer over his career and this season. May seem insignificant, but it is a rather large gap all things considering. 4. Mercer, throughout his career, has been the leader of his team. Mobley has always had one or more players - Olajuwon, Barkley, and Francis - to lean back upon. In that time, Mercer did not prove he could put up the numbers to lead his team, even with other decent players around him - Billups, Fortson, et al. Mobley, when Francis was out, was the ONLY player the Rockets had healthy who could do anything with the basketball, at least at the caliber of the aforementioned players on old Boston, Denver, Orlando, and Chicago teams in the past. 5. Wonder why Mercer has been on 5 teams in his career already and Mobley just one? Because he's not the easiest player to get along with on and off the court. At times, he's like Iverson in that he can be the only scorer on his team or else he is unhappy; the same does not hold true for Cuttino. Mobley, however, has been a good lockerroom presence and not a cancer to what the team wants to do. 6. The statements about Cuttino not being a team player are offbase; if he had anyone to pass the ball to in the past and it was for the betterment of the team, he would've done it - that's why he and Francis are good backcourt mates. His talents are being used effectively on the Rockets for what they need him for - scoring. Mercer does not have the talent to adapt to the role his team needs him to fill. Much of the aforementioned arguments are intangibles, while the others are statistically based. In any case, Mercer is not the player that Mobley is - and he makes much more than Mobley does to boot!
Is that even relevant? Hakeem is great shot-blocker, but Duncan isn't too bad himself. Where does this fit in? You have a point here but this arguement goes both ways. Cuttino was the main guy on Rockets b/c Francis always missing time. So compared to Finley, Sczerbiak, and A. Houston, what kind of defense did mobley have to put up with. Cuttino was putting up good numbers despite getting doubled and taking "bad shots". Cuttino will never come off the bench, no matter what option he is. Even if he is behind Ming, Griffon, and Francis. When one of these guys is doubled, think of how deadly it is for them to pass to an open Cuttino. I think everyone should just be happy we have him on our team. If he was on any other team, he would be a huge pain-in-the-a$$ for us.
MManal, Great points! I think many of the shortcomings of our guards Francis, Mobley and Norris will be rectified by an overall better TEAM this year with more options. I see LESS dribbling & iso plays and more passing in the offense. I see MORE open shots because double teams will be created in the low or high post. I see MORE assists because of the open shots as mentioned above. I see MORE fast breaks with Francis leading them (instead of trying to get the rebounds) which again leads to more easy shots. I think some of the short-comings of the players last year were magnified because of the TEAM situation, being hurt and undermanned. Let's see what this team can do this season with more weapons and most importantly, a healty team! Chris
Mercer was never on the Bulls "pre-Brand". He signed on with Chicago in 2000, playing the full 2000-2001 season <i>with</i> Brand. He averaged a whopping 2 points less than Cuttino (19.7), but shot better from the field and had more than an assist per game better than Mobley while turning it over fewer times. Look it up again .... I think you'll find the seasons near identical.
-The point I was trying to make is that when you can't just say 3.5 blocks per game is "only" 1 more than 2.5 blocks per game. Hakeem was a MUCH MUCH better shot blocker than Duncan. It would be a joke for someone to say "well he only avg'd 1 more block a game, big deal." When you are talking assists or blocks where the average per player is about 3.5-4, the difference between 2.5 and 3.5 IS very statistically significant. -Cuttino's assists per minute ratio is probably one of the worst in the league for backcourt starters.
His assist to TO ratio is 1.03. His assists per minute ratio is 0.0594. That stat isn't one kept by the NBA, but can easily be deduced. It's rather low from some quick research, but most of the guards it is below don't have a PG next to him the caliber of Francis. And no, I don't think The Cat is acutally Cuttino!
I would agree that Cuttino Mobley is slightly better than Mercer, but the two are the same kind of players. Mercer is a better defender than Mobley and his stats that one year and over the course of his career have been decent. Not much different than Mobley's. Mercer has a slight injury problem which is his negative. If I was building a team I wouldn't want iether guy.
Cato=Bum has it correct. Cuttino is a wreckless player who does not have a good basketball IQ. If he does he sure doesnt show it. He is definitely not good at making decisions with the ball and not good at selecting his shots. In my opinion those are prety important things.
Sorry about that... I could've sworn he was there in the first season. That team was even worse than I thought! Nevertheless, that season is still not quite comparable to Mobley in this past season. Mercer shot more shots per game than Mobley, averaged less points per game, thus having a lower PPS (1.07) ratio. Furthermore, the only times in his career (two seasons) that Mercer has had similar numbers, his team was among the worst in the league. Mobley has proven he can produce his numbers on a winning team. (Playoffs or no playoffs, a 45-37 record in the tough Western Conference is a good team) Mercer has yet to prove that he can be a top 2-3 option on a team that isn't in the cellar. Also, as mfclark stated, Cuttino is improving rapidly year after year. His PPS and assist numbers are actually somewhat skewed from the games in which he played on a hurt ankle. When healthy, over a 40-50 game stretch, Cuttino averaged 25 points, 4.5 rebounds, and 3 assists on about 45% shooting. Cat, according to your logic, a guy like Tim Duncan is "nearly" as good a shotblocker as Olajuwon as Hakeem "only" had 3.5 BPG to Duncan's 2.5 BPG. The difference between 1 block and 1 assist is huge. Blocks aren't as influenced by other factors, like team shooting percentage. Also, since there are less blocks to go around, 3.5 blocks is great. It's not just the one block... a number that high in blocks is elite. It commands respect from other teams. 2.5 is good... but not quite to that level. It's not the same with assists. I suppose you could make the argument... but personally, I don't see coaches saying "man, we have to respect Michael Finley's passing, he gets 3.3 assists per game, but definitely not that ballhog Cat Mobley, he only averages 2.5".. You have a point here but this arguement goes both ways. Cuttino was the main guy on Rockets b/c Francis always missing time. So compared to Finley, Sczerbiak, and A. Houston, what kind of defense did mobley have to put up with. Cuttino was putting up good numbers despite getting doubled and taking "bad shots". EXACTLY! The truth of the "Cuttino is an average player putting out above average numbers on a bad team" argument is that the exact opposite is true. For that argument to hold water, Cat would have to have more shot attempts for his points (PPS ratio) to prove his mediocrity. Since that's not the case, and because he plays on a worse team, he faces more defensive pressure to average the same PPS.
Mobley and Mercer are similar in that the primary aspect of thie game is scoring, but that's where the similarities end. Mobley is an improving player; Mercer is not. Mobley is at least a decent defender; Mercer is not - I'd know from watching him in Orlando for half a season. He puts little effort into his defense, because it would take away from his scoring. Cuttino isn't a great defender, but he's at least adequate. Mercer's stats are hardly skewed by injuries or demotions - and even if they were skewed by the latter, it would tell you something about how good (or, bad) he is. Like I mentioned before - why would the Pacers draft Freddie Jones in the first round of a deep draft if Mercer was that good? They need a player to replace Reggie Miller and had been working out Al Harrington (before the ACL injury) and Jonathan Bender there as big shooting guards. Mercer does not factor into their future plans - he is not that good of a player. If I was building a team, I'd love to have a player like Cuttino. Why? Because I think he will be the biggest beneficary of an improved frontcourt on the Rockets, something that would reflect to building a team by allowing me to focus on such players.
