The Myth of the Rockets and 2010 Free Agency

Silly logic

 

I actually like lull and don't really care for the others. Its one thing to have a team full of young players and its another to have a team for of young players with all star potential. You wont get a argument out of me when it comes to landry,brooks and some of the others, i'm just saying that unless your team is stacked, something the rockets were never to the point at anytime during the yao-mcgrady era, when you give away picks, it comes back and bite you in the butt. Wasn't barbosa and parker in the same draft or i could be wrong?

Mango, its not about shane and not about something that was done by cd if thats who you want to blame. I think its enough blame to go around for everyone on down. It wasnt shane, it was the price of course that has us scraping to find that 3rd guy. The lakers post shaq with kobe chirping had plenty of reason not to draft bynum or to trade him for kidd but the didn't. Now he may not ever become a dominant player, but he has a lot of value. The lakers if they wanted probably could get more for him than anyone,anyone on the rockets and thats with a injury history.

 

leebigez

I understand what you are saying, but you and <i>Melechesh</i> both present the deal as strictly Shane for the rights to Rudy Gay when there was more to the trade than that.

The Rockets wanted to move Stromile Swift and likely didn't have many interested counterparties. Unless something has recently changed, Stromile isn't even in the NBA at the moment. It looks like he just turned 30 two weeks ago.

Stromile Swift


If a viable strategy - method would be presented on how the Rockets could have dumped Stromile Swift without a <i>cost</i>, then you would be able to strengthen your case - position in regards to to opposing the trade.

Financial considerations and moving a player that was not going to meet their expectations appear to have weighed quite heavily on the Rockets decision to make the Battier for Swift + Rights to Gay trade.

 

I didn't recall the Grizzlies giving away a lotto pick in order to dump Swift one year after the Battier trade.

 

The overvaluing of late lottery picks is borderline funny here sometimes.

The expected value of a late lottery pick is worse than Shane Battier alone and yet you are again b****ing about the trade

Go and support the Clippers, Grizzlies and whatever *****hole of a team you can find. They get always those picks and they sure seem to help them - not.

The fact is that depending on the draft, there are few can't miss prospects and then the quality decreases - first rapidly and then steadily. It's like buying lottery coupons, sometimes you win but most often not.

 

LOL. Morey couldn't snatch a "late" lotto pick with a package of Battier & Brooks this summer.

The Bobcats got Jason Richardson with their #8 pick back in 2007.

 

Shane Battier is still a better player than Rudy Gay.


Not to mention we got to dump Stromile Swift's crappy contract... HOORAY!!!

 

You know for a fact that that was the offer? Do you have a source perhaps or is this like those McGrady for Billups/Hamilton/Prince/ Whatever all-star Piston -deals that were offered and turned down by Morey?

Jason Richardson has a max or near-max contract and he sure as hell is not a max player by any means. You think that has something to do with that trade?
But surely you think that because J-Rich can run and jump and dunk so he has to be so awesome.

In my original post I was making a point that let's say in the 7-11 pick range Shane Battier is a little bit above average value even if you don't particularly appereciate these "intangibles". Nothing you said really disputes that.

 

I dont know about some people here, but I have complete faith in our management.

You look at our lineup now, without the two stars the club was meant to be built around, they are getting the job done.

Before these guys come to our club, no one knew who they were, let alone think they would be the key to a winning side in the Western Conference!

I think with out club, with the way they are building the lineup, it won't be the stars or no brainer moves that will make us great. It will be the confusing moves no one understands that will end up paying off a whole lot more.

I'd suggest that if we do take another step on the back of some "big" moves next year, it will be because we have a deep lineup with a lot of no name, hard working, horrible to have to play against players who are just a 48 minute nightmare for other teams to play against.

 

Battier is worth a late first round pick.

With Swift's toxic contract taken into consideration, Battier was worth no more than a #15 pick back then.

You Battier apologizers are missing the point. It's not that we hate Battier because he can't dunk. Many players with mediocre athleticism are doing just fine. It's the fact that he's overrated and worshipped like some elite players by some of the posters around here sets off fair criticism. Claiming Battier is a better basketball player than Gay/Richardson just shows how ignorant you are. Some people probably never watched other teams play when they pull this kind of nonsense out of there asses.

If Battier is so awesome why don't you go be a BOF and support for this awesome player instead of the team when he's traded eventually?

 

By the way, when is a wing player with absolutely no ability to create off the dribble considered more than above average and worth more than a lotto pick?

People are constantly bashing other players on our team but when it comes to Battier the criticisms are always illegitimate.

Watch the game not the pretty face.

 

Some Celtics fans would admit their team made a mistake giving away the seventh overall pick for Dickau and the riddance of Lafrentz, why you guys can't do the same? Is it because the Rockets achieved more than the Celtics in recent years? Do you think Shane Battier has the equal trade value as a lotto pick right now? Trade value of draft picks are sometimes overrated, sometimes underrated. Managements do make mistakes from time to time and how is this particular move beyond doubt? Is it because I hurt your feelings for saying that Battier is a mediocre player?

 

Apologists? Ignorant? Pure hypocrisy. Your statement of "when Battier gets traded eventually" is laughable.

Richardson and Gay are both knuckleheads, whose above average athleticism and flashy offensive game cloud the rest of thier massive shortcomings. Couple that with high contracts and they are players not worth having. They are names and nothing else. Look up and down the Grizzlies roster, they out "name" us at every position save PG, yet they are bad and we are good. Im sure you never stopped and asked why, because if you did, you would know its because we have "basketball players" and they have "names".

You can make a list of 20 or 30 qualities that make up a "good" basketball player and odds are Batts is gonna have the advantage in most of them other than offense. He is a game changer. In just this week alone, his ability to lock down B.Davis and Ellis has completely turned the momentum in those respective games. So before you start calling people ignorant you should probably take a look at what wins basketball games, not who has the flashiest play.

 

I didn't recall Battier shut down Kobe and bring us to the WCF.

Again it's not his fault but Yao/T-Mac/Artest's, oh you just said he's a game changer.

Say what you want to say about Battier, I'm done disputing here.

Love is blind.

 

I recall us taking the eventual champion Lakers farther than any other team did.

 

First of all, I'm a not a "Battier apologizer". i haven't been exactly pleased with his performances this season and I'm certainly open to trading him if we get a good offer.

Secondly, where did I say Gay and Richardson were worse? That's right, I didn't. (That doesn't mean that I necessarily rate them very highly either)

I was merely saying that you among others overvalue those late lottery picks. Do some research yourself and maybe you will understand what I'm saying. The chances of getting a impact player aren't all that super when getting to the later lottery. People like you conveniently forget all the busts taken with the later picks:

Yi Jianlian, Dajuan Wagner, Bryant Reeves, DerMarr Johnson, Tractor Taylor, Sharone Wright, Ron Mercer, Corey Brewer, Eddie Griffin, Chris Mihm, Lorenzen Wright, Bobby Hurley, Joe Alexander, Rafael Araujo, Larry Hughes, Desagana Diop, Chris Wilcox, Patrick O'Bryant, Ike Diogu, Mike Sweetney, Samaki Walker, Ed O'Bannon, Rodney White, Saer Sene, Luke Jackson, Danny Fortson, Keyon Dooling, Acie Law, JJ Redick, Fran Vasquez, Kedrick Brown, Jared Jeffries, Jerome Moiso, Trajan Langdon, Oliver Saint-Jean, Todd Fuller etc.

What do those have in common? They have been taken in recent (10-15 years) drafts in 6-11 range . I left out a lot of people who I personally think are worse than Battier but a case could be made otherwise also.

I can probably guess your next argument. You cherrypick the good players out of those drafts and tell me that people who drafted those busts are idiots and should have picked some other guys. Sure Melechesh the Armchair GM could do better? Tell me the correct Texas lottery numbers also and while you are at it you should try to forecast the date of the armageddon too. Easy job surely for you.

Guess what, people responsible for those picks are still professionals and are/were paid big bucks to scout and draft players, maybe they just got unlucky? It's not an exact science and any reasonable executive probably thinks that as well. It's just foolish to trade proven players for picks and expect to be always right when picking them.

When you are playing a game where there is great competition, it usually means that no one player is head and shoulders above everybody else. The game I'm talking about here is Drafting players, and even if Daryl Morey is the greatest talent evaluator ever, it is unlikely he can continuously draft much better than the average team. And if he can, how much? It's just not probable to see things that no-one else can when the information is public and every team has an army of scouts scouting the players.

 

Here is an idea: resign McGrady to a 3 or 4 year deal and then trade him in the offseason or sometime next season. There may be teams like Chicago who won't resign Deng or may resign Miller and are looking to sign new PF's or SF's but won't be able to afford a contract like McGrady is looking for.

I can't honestly believe that there is a team out there that would take McGrady for half a season not knowing how his knee will hold up, and I don't think the Rockets could get much in return except for more players like Battier, Brooks and Lowry.

 

Please don't turn this wonderful thread into a shouting match about Shane Battier.

Thank you for your attention.

 

Well said.