Okay. I'll bite. I've never had problems with teams rebuilding as a fan(which I agree with you is generally a minority opinion). So how do you plan on rebuilding? One that allows us to become a championship caliber team? And I hope the answer isn't simply going to be "hoping for Lebron 2.0 to show up the exact year we have the #1 pick".
Yao's trading value will increase if he makes a successful comeback,however a good GM will hesitate to sign him to a long term contract. Realistically speaking the best that I think he can bring us,is a "star". This might not be good enough. The risk of re-injury or of him deteriorating is very much in the picture,unfortunately.
THANK YOU, saleem. I had a hard time wondering why people can't accept that Yao won't be a Max Contract Player anymore if he can't get back to his regular form next year. Why would you just lob up 14-18 mill a year to an oft-injured player and mortgage your team's future? That would depend on circumstances. No one saw the Steve Francis trade coming. No one gave us a real shot at landing the #1 pick to get Yao. Trading 4 starters for Tracy McGrady? Unheard of. Some things happen that can't be foretold. Of course I'm not going to sit and hope we tank to get the #1 or whatever and I'm sure Morey isn't either. I think he knows that, as long as the players on this team continues to develop this year, he has a strong core of players that will be ready if/when another star player arrives. The problem in years past when the Rockets wanted to build around Francis/Yao, McGrady/Yao is that management had to scrounge for those crucial role players. They had to reach far and wide for those players. Now, they have all the right guys. Lets say they don't plan on bringing Scola and Lowry back. You still have: Ariza Landry Hayes Brooks Budinger All quality role players. Hell, if Andersen pans out you can add him onto the list. This is a LOT better than years past when the Rockets had to role the dice on the Derek Andersons, the David Wesleys, the Brent Barrys to produce. Now, they got relatively young guys that they can match up with Yao and whomever. The different between couple of years ago and the next couple of years is night and day: back then, we needed to find role players to fit with our stars. Now, we have role players that can mesh with pretty much any alpha-dog player in the league.
I actually had to reread this again. What's hilarious is that since you know Morey is smart, you'd think Morey won't hesitate re-upping Yao with a Max Contract extension. That in itself is flawed logic. I don't care what Curry or Dampier or Nene is making because they were all OVERpaid to begin with. If you want to follow the trend of OVERpaying for centers, by all means throw Yao a $75 mil / 5 year contract extension. Then watch as he either 1. crumbles year in, year out or 2. be relegated to Big Z status and become a one trick pony (18 ft shooting center who barely rebounds and can't do much else). I have no idea how an NBA big man is paid, ha! I'm sure I've watched the Rockets long enough to see the money they threw at Kelvin Cato and Mo Taylor and Stromile Swift (yes, even the MLE is overpaying for him) to see that the Rockets have a problem of overspending on big men. Why don't we be smart and play a wait-n-see approach next year?
My logic is not flawed. Seems we all agree Morey is smart. Since Morey is smart, he knows he can't afford to lose Yao for nothing, that damage will be more than sign Yao a max contract, and at 4year/40 mil as you mentioned he sure will lose Yao for nothing. He'd do a sign and trade even if he thinks Yao is overpaid. Yao is still very much valuable to many teams, and there will be many teams who would take that chance considering his basketball ability and money making ability.
Guys, guys . . . unless Yao opts out of his contract this summer (which I think is not likely to happen), then how much he is paid will probably be a moot point. The Rockets are in a position to have SOME cap room in 2010. Assuming that Luis Scola is re-signed and that Morey uses either the team's cap room or (in lieu of minimal cap room) the MLE this summer, then the Rockets will not likely have ANY cap room for a LOOOONG time. In 2011, Landry and Brooks will be up for much larger contracts. The team will also be adding first round draft picks who will take up salary cap room. In other words, by the summer of 2011, it won't make too much difference to the Rockets from a salary cap standpoint whether Yao re-signs for $9M per season or $18M per season. As for "overpaying" Yao, that will most definitely happen. Does he get the max? Maybe. Does he get only $8M per season? No freakin' way. The extra revenue that Yao simply being on the roster brings to the Houston Rockets organization is more than enough to cover the extra $4-5M per season that Yao may be "overpaid" AND can enable Les to continue to buy draft picks and/or bribe other teams to take the Brian Cooks of the world off the roster to avoid luxury tax. Meanwhile, given the other salaries that will need to be paid to Scola, Landry, Brooks, Lowry and any other MLE free agents added to this team, overpaying Yao should have little impact on the Rockets' salary cap situation for most (if not all) of the span of Yao's next contract.
So basically the Rockets are more or less married to Yao unless he opts to be an UFA and signs with another team.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but when you operate a sport franchise like this, you will never win a title. La got rid of shaq because he was declining and was injured more than in the past , plus the tit for tat thing with kobe. If you put the lakers,spurs,mavs in this situation, what would they do. First thing posters do when they talk about the extra money of yao is talk about the buying of draft picks. How come they have to buy draft picks when a team like Sa never does? How can a team like sa give up the best international big and yet haven't fallen off and have their international cubbord stacked. They don't have to buy picks because they don't give them away to take on another contract. Where was the buying of picks when pritchard was buying all those first rd picks? Maybe i just don't get it.
I would hate that plan. My premise is that you should always be building your team towards being a championship team. As of right now, I cannot say that Yao has ever shown that he can be the dominant No. 1 player on such a team. I mean Greg Oden/Przbilla fronting him basically took him out of the playoff series. Also consider the number of teams who have won a Title with 1 or fewer superstars can be done on 1 hand, with the last two having one of the best defensive teams ever at least in their playoff run [Pistons 04] or one of the greatest Centers on both sides of the floor [Rockets 94]. Given that, we need another star player, and more than likely one who can be the primary option when the offense stalls. Our current team is good, but you have to have truly red-colored glasses to see such a player on our current team, and you don't get that type of player with picks you can buy. We could trade for that player, but whom? Only players with that potential/ability that I could available this year or in the immediate future are Bosh & CP3. As good as getting Bosh would be, he is still basically a post player even if he shoots a good deal of jumpshots and faces up a decent amount, and not sure if he would be enough. And even if the Hornets implode in 2010/2011, there is no way NO trades CP3 to a division rival. Basically, if you can get Yao to agree to slightly cheaper contract, even at the cost of an extra year, you have to take it.
The Lakers, Spurs and Mavericks have had varying combinations of <i>Good Fortune</i>, <i>Good Management</i> and <i>Deep Pockets</i> for a longer time period than the Rockets have had. The Rockets Front Office has been running hard in recent years to recover from poor management in the past. The Mavericks and Spurs are teams looking at a fairly small <i>Window of Opportunity</i> to accomplish something significant such as playing for a Championship. The Lakers have a bit more time because of the Gasol trade and Kobe is holding up a bit better compared to the Stars for the Spurs and Mavericks. Have the past years been squandered because of a limited supporting cast for Yao and Tracy? Yes, but I can't hold that against the current management because the mistakes were made by the previous Leadership. Because there were failures in earlier drafts by the Rockets and the buying of picks in recent years was part of the process to build a roster with depth. Pre Morey Era Yao -- Drafted McGrady -- Traded for <hr> Chuck Hayes -- Undrafted <hr> Morey Era Battier -- Traded for Scola -- Traded for the Rights to * Andersen -- Traded for the Rights to Ariza -- Signed as a Free Agent Brooks -- Drafted Lowry -- Traded for ** Cook -- Traded for ** Landry -- Drafted *** Dorsey -- Drafted *** Budinger -- Drafted *** Taylor -- Drafted *** * The residual <i>value</i> from the Pre Morey era in the Scola trade was having Vassilis Spanoulis to use as a bargaining chip so the Spurs could dump the contract of Jackie Butler. A rather lowly <i>nod</i> to the accomplishments of the Pre Morey Leadership. ** There might be some residual <i>value</i> from the Pre Morey era in the trade that brought in Lowry & Cook, but likely not a significant amount. More research on the earlier James, Howard and Alston trades would clarify that. *** It could be argued that the Rockets traded for the rights to Budinger, Taylor, Dorsey and Landry rather than directly drafted them, but I will call it Drafted for the moment. The better question is how could so many mistakes be made in talent evaluations in the Pre Morey Era? The Spurs already had a solid core with Duncan, Manu and Parker while the Rockets were still working on depth & overall talent and were forced to buy picks. I don't know the dynamics of why the Rockets bought Second Round picks while Portland bought First Round. Perhaps Les made Morey prove himself on talent evaluations and was hesitant to let Morey spend for a First Round and the accompanying salary commitment. Second Round picks allow for more flexibility in salary while First Round picks have more structured salaries.
The 2nd rounders the Rockets could just essentially buy with cash (+ future 2nd rounders in some cases) so the deal was easier to structure. You get to pay up to $3 million for such picks. The first rounders the Blazers obtained cost more than the cash considerations and I don't think the Rockets had what it took to trade for them. For example, Portland's got the pick the resulted in Rudy F. by eating James Jone's salary, I think 3 years, $9 million, with either cap room or a trade exception. The Rockets didn't have either cap room or a large enough trade exception at the time. Besides I think the Rockets, unlike the Blazers, were operating near the luxury tax limit so that the $3 million a year paid to Jones could have been much more in terms of real $ for the Rockets (Blazers had low salary due to the fact that Roy/Aldridge, etc. were on rookie scale salaries). Portland got the 7th pick that eventually resulted in from the Celtics by trading Telfair (who was still viewed as some exciting young talent at the time) and agreeing to eat Raef Lafrentz' longer term big contract (forgot who they throw in to balance the salaries). Again, the Rockets didn't have either the "exciting young talent" or the capacity to eat Lafrentz' $12 mil a year salary at the time.
I'm not saying that Yao must be re-signed to the max because he's the player who is going to lead the Rockets to the championship. Far from that. What I am saying is that, FROM A SALARY CAP STANDPOINT (i.e., the Rockets' actual ability to add other free agents over the coming years), paying Yao at or near the max in 2011 (as opposed to, say, a "more manageable" $9M per season) will have little impact on the Rockets' ability to add another star. Barring Yao opting out this summer and dumping Scola and Lowry, I don't see the Rockets being able to add ANY star to this team VIA FREE AGENCY. Morey is instead collecting as many "assets" as he can (e.g., young players on affordable contracts, promising overseas players like Llull and Eliyahu, trade exceptions, etc.) and will likely attempt to add that star via trade. But Yao will still likely be a Rocket. At what salary, that is almost irrelevant. If anyone has a problem with that (and I know leebigez always has a problem with whatever I say ), rather than say how Yao is not worth the money or how teams can't win that way, please provide a realistic alternative that both works under the salary cap and does not involve the risk of blowing up the team with little chance of an actual return on risk.
Mango and Herrera, i'm not saying morey and management did a poor job, I was just stating that if u don't give away picks, you don't have to buy back picks. No matter what, it still go back to giving away the lotto pick for shane is what set some of this off. The win now mode made us trade 2 first rd picks for artest. The idea that rafer alston,shane battier,and chuck hayes could be starters on a championship team was just wrong. Now we've seen phoenix give away first rd picks because they had their lineup set and they gave away high picks acquired from trading with someone else. Deng,rondo,fernandez were all availible to the suns and they coughed the picks up. The spurs have traded down or just drafted the best player availible because they have been in win now mode for awhile, but the have deep playoff run success to show for it. Even the mavs somehow got their hands on a high lotto pick in harris and traded him for the aging kidd and resigned a guy they overpaid in diop. Diop wasn't working out and they traded him within months and got a couple younger cheaper guys without coughing up a lotto pick to get rid of diop and his new money. It just seems like a cycle to me that everytime we make a trade, we have to take on a bs contract and give up a pick. The spurs got jefferson and didn't even have to give up their 1st rd pick did they?
Frankly, I don't care if Donte Greene and Omri Casspi (or whoever the Rockets would have drafted at #23 . . . which actually might have been Jermaine Taylor anyway) go on to have very good careers. The Artest trade made the Rockets instant contenders. It was just unfortunate that both T-Mac and Yao suffered season-ending injuries. But at least the Rockets took a swing at a home run and a chance at a championship. Getting the first round monkey off the Rockets' back alone made the deal worth it. I agree that a guy like Shane Battier could NEVER be a starter on a championship team. Sincerely, Bruce Bowen Seriously, though, Shane Battier is PRECISELY the type of player who would be a starter on a championship team. The problem you have with him is that he should not be the second or third best player on a championship team. But as a fourth or fifth starter, he's IDEAL. The facts are that (a) Phoenix management was flat-out stupid to give away those picks; (b) the Spurs have had the best management in pro sports BY FAR over the last decade, so every team aspires to be more like the Spurs; (c) the Mavs had to take Matt Carroll's monstrosity of a contract (only slightly less monstrous than Diop's) to dump Diop; (d) the Spurs are going to be paying a TON of luxury tax this year for taking Jefferson from the Bucks, who desperately needed the money (and Morey may still be looking for such a trade . . . be patient). As for the Rockets' trading practices in recent years, trading future SECOND round picks to add guys like Carl Landry, Chase Budinger and David Andersen is just fine by me. Using picks to dump players like Kirk Snyder, Steve Francis and (coming soon) Brian Cook in order to save millions of dollars in luxury tax (which can then be used to purchase HIGHER second round picks) actually seems like a SMART strategy. But maybe that's just me.
So Bima, it was stupid for phoenix to give away a lotto pick when they had a really good starting 5 and no room, but it was smart management by the rox to do the same when they had gaping holes? Of course the everyone wants to manage like the spurs and they might pay the lux tax, but the do have a couple of ace's in the whole and when even on a off year you still win the division and the yr prior go to the conf finals, then u take jefferson. What did they give up again to get him? Like I said before, I have no problem buying picks or whatever, but by the same token, if we're trying the model of Sa, don't give them away. The spurs didn't need george hill, but they dfafted him anyway and now he's great depth or a valuable trade piece. Dejuan Blair is another guy they really didn't need, but they took him anyway and he's good depth and looks like a good player. BTW, what did the spurs pay to get jackson,bowen,oberto, and guys like that? What about finley? What was his compensation?
You keep focusing on the Battier trade, but he is still catching notable minutes in the NBA. What about: * Boki * Eddie G * Luther Head * Terrence Morris How many of them are catching notable minutes in the NBA? Those are the failed Draft choices that have hurt the franchise and forced them to buy picks in recent years. The Rockets had an opportunity to fill in the roster after drafting Yao and accomplish something. The Pre Morey Leadership failed miserably at that task and put the team in a situation were the Fans and likely the owner wanted to be competitive <b>Now</b>. A Portland scenario of diddling around for several years in the Lottery wasn't appealing. You complain about Shane, Rafer and Chuck, yet it wasn't the current Leadership that missed with multiple picks in earlier years. There were things done in previous years that hampered the franchise. * Signing Mo Taylor -- a PF that was a below par rebounder. * Small Ball with Moochie, Cutino and Steve on the court together. It looked flashy, but wasn't going to be a viable strategy for a Championship contender. * No or poor insight on what makes a team a Championship Contender and lack of a viable plan to build a roster towards that goal. I have already illustrated how little carryover the current roster has from the past, yet you ignored it since it doesn't fit your usual complaint about Shane.
You can't compare Luther Head or a second rounder to the eighth overall pick. Trading away the lotto pick for Shane Battier should never be considered good management. The Battier trade was an epic fail. How many wing players were added to the roster since that trade? Wafer, Artest, Barry, Budinger, Taylor, Ariza. That should tell you something.
He was a failure as a Draft Pick and didn't the Rockets give up a future First Round pick for the rights to Terrence Morris? I don't think you have presented the trade accurately - completely. Artest and Wafer stayed for one season and they tried the patience of the Rockets management at times. Neither were strongly pursued by the Rockets to resign this summer. Barry is retired - bought out and didn't take that many minutes from Shane while he was here. Taylor and Budinger appear to be insurance for the spotty - questionable health of McGrady and replacements for Luther Head. Ariza could be a replacement for Battier, but resolving the McGrady question is a more pressing concern for the Rockets at the moment than the long term future of Battier. Wing players that were acquired before Battier and are no longer around are Luther Head, Terrence Morris and Boki. <i>That should tell you something</i> about how badly the organization missed on drafting in earlier years.
