The Muslim Perspective - Part 2

pdg,

thanks for defending me.

cohen seems to bring up that shoah line in every single thread i start, doesn't he. i don't mind it though. like you've said, i've apologised for any bad feelings it may have caused. though i still stand by the reasoning behind accusing the shoah movement of hypocrisy.

i just would like you to know that i'll take your advice and post with more tact in the future.

one thing i've discovered while posting on this board is just how hard it is to change people's minds, especially convictions about seeing certain sides of an issue once the mind's made up.

most of the jewish posters, cohen, stupidmoniker, franchiseblade, etc. are conscientious, well-spoken, and capable of seeing both sides of the issue, even when they care passionately about the welfare of israel. as for me, my background naturally allies me with the oppressed. and i think what happens here, is that one-sided posts on my part, bring out one-sided comments from them as well, making all of us seem biased. it's really my fault.

i like to see things in a broad historical context, placing myself in other cultures' shoes, and ask why things are the way they are. in many ways like yourself. however, i do tend to see things in black or white, once i weigh all the moral considerations, and in the end i do often lose control over the tone of my arguments.

my education and credentials are as complete as you can possibly imagine and these accusations of racism just don't bother me. i know myself. if i hated any race, i wouldn't take the time to convince people to come to a peaceful resolution. i foresee a violent end to this palestinian (and by extension us vs. muslim world) conflict. and sooner or later, it will come to it. i frankly don't know which side is going to win or lose or even if victory has any meaning in any of this. what i fear is the endless generations of hate this conflict will cause. and i try to prevent it in the tiny ways i can. there are certain ideals we as americans have been brought up with, and i see the parties involved in this conflict going farther and farther away from realising them. and i try to convince people to restore these ideals. it's that simple. and that difficult.

there are so many opportunities, so many excuses, so much imperfection, injustice, and unfairness in the world, that bitterness and hate just seems so natural at times. it's so much easier, almost a pleasure, to hate, to fight, to abuse the power we are given, to inflict upon others what we'd never want inflicted upon ourselves. it's human nature. that's how these political quagmires come to pass.

sometimes, i wonder, what does it take to bring out the compassion in people. at times it's all so frustrating. but other times i feel refreshed and hopeful. especially when i encounter people like yourself.

cheers!

 

yes. i think most muslims consider israel, and by extension, the jewish people that support it, the enemy. and i think mahathir is one of the few muslim leaders out there that actually is willing to paint the enemy as a worthy adversary, smart, thoughtful, and above all human (as opposed to others that just labels them infidels, scum, tools of westerners to be exterminated, etc. etc.). he promotes engaging israel, working with israel to find a solution, rather than wiping israel and jews off the map. the defeat he wishes to inflict upon israel/jews is not one of extermination, but simply over the fate of palestine, the freedom of palestinians, and thereby indirectly restoring the global image of an reinvigorated islam.

what is the man most famous for? for the RACIAL HARMONY and co-prosperity he's instill in his native malaysia. again i urge you to check out mahathir's accomplishments before you criticise him.
http://www.time.com/time/asia/magazine/article/0,13673,501031020-517782,00.html

 

are you blind or stupid? can you read?
i called the jews seeking to continue the persecution of KURT WALDHEIM spiteful. KURT WALDHEIM, a saintly man who laboured for world peace for 50 years, was acquited of ALL CHARGES against him by multiple international investigations, including among others by our OWN CIA. and i cited multiple other examples of OTHER INNOCENT MEN wrongly accused and prosecuted by SPITEFUL, HYPOCRITICAL HATEFUL jews/nazi hunters who placed their desire for vengeance over any consideration of due process, international law, or the American principle that each man is INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY. 58 friggin years after the last concentration camp shut down.

and in this empty pursuit of "justice", the original intentions for publicising the holocaust advocated by elie weisel IS TOTALLY LOST, replaced by a paranoid, blind hatred of "unspeakable evils", a readiness to crusade against anyone at the drop of a few catch-phrases, and the abandonment of any search for root causes or understanding. this "kill the beast" mentality, this mindless "our enemies are just evil, and must be destroyed!!" bloodlust, are the lessons which Americans have instead received from our holocaust education. the shoah remembrance movement today, and the jewish institutions that sponsor it, are the paragons of hypocrisy.

you call it justice. i call it blind hate. and for these differences you call me racist. apparently, most international authorities agree with me. i don't find your ignorant posts, repetitive insults, and empty logic the least bit convincing.

for your EDUCATION, i present you the Nobel Acceptance speech of Elie Wiesel, a far greater man than you or i. i hope you can learn from him as i have.

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The Nobel Acceptance Speech Delivered by Elie Wiesel in Oslo on December 10, 1986

Your Majesty, Your Royal Highnesses, Your Excellencies, Chairman Aarvik, members of the Nobel Committee, ladies and gentlemen:

Words of gratitude. First to our common Creator. This is what the Jewish tradition commands us to do. At special occasions, one is duty-bound to recite the following prayer: "Barukh shehekhyanu vekiymanu vehigianu lazman haze" — "Blessed be Thou for having sustained us until this day."

Then — thank you, Chairman Aarvik, for the depth of your eloquence. And for the generosity of your gesture. Thank you for building bridges between people and generations. Thank you, above all, for helping humankind make peace its most urgent and noble aspiration.

I am moved, deeply moved by your words, Chairman Aarvik. And it is with a profound sense of humility that I accept the honor — the highest there is — that you have chosen to bestow upon me. I know your choice transcends my person.

Do I have the right to represent the multitudes who have perished? Do I have the right to accept this great honor on their behalf? I do not. No one may speak for the dead, no one may interpret their mutilated dreams and visions. And yet, I sense their presence. I always do — and at this moment more than ever. The presence of my parents, that of my little sister. The presence of my teachers, my friends, my companions…

This honor belongs to all the survivors and their children and, through us to the Jewish people with whose destiny I have always identified.

I remember: it happened yesterday, or eternities ago. A young Jewish boy discovered the Kingdom of Night. I remember his bewilderment, I remember his anguish. It all happened so fast. The ghetto. The deportation. The sealed cattle car. The fiery altar upon which the history of our people and the future of mankind were meant to be sacrificed.

I remember he asked his father: "Can this be true? This is the twentieth century, not the Middle Ages. Who would allow such crimes to be committed? How could the world remain silent?"

And now the boy is turning to me. "Tell me," he asks, "what have you done with my future, what have you done with your life?" And I tell him that I have tried. That I have tried to keep memory alive, that I have tried to fight those who would forget. Because if we forget, we are guilty, we are accomplices.

And then I explain to him how naïve we were, that the world did know and remained silent. And that is why I swore never to be silent whenever wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Sometimes we must interfere. When human lives are endangered, when human dignity is in jeopardy, national borders and sensitivities become irrelevant. Wherever men and women are persecuted because of their race, religion, or political views, that place must — at that moment — become the center of the universe.

Of course, since I am a Jew profoundly rooted in my people's memory and tradition, my first response is to Jewish fears, Jewish needs, Jewish crises. For I belong to a traumatized generation, one that experienced the abandonment and solitude of our people. It would be unnatural for me not to make Jewish priorities my own: Israel, Soviet Jewry, Jews in Arab land… But others are important to me. Apartheid is, in my view, as abhorrent as anti-Semitism. To me, Andrei Sakharov's isolation is as much a disgrace as Joseph Begun's imprisonment and Ida Nudel's exile. As is the denial of solidarity and it's leader Lech Walesa's right to dissent. And Nelson Mandela's interminable imprisonment.

There is so much injustice and suffering crying out for our attention: victims of hunger, of racism and political persecution — in Chile, for instance, or in Ethiopia — writers and poets, prisoners in so many lands governed by the Left and by the Right.

Human rights are being violated on every continent. More people are oppressed than free. How can one not be sensitive to their plight? Human suffering anywhere concerns men and women everywhere. That applies also to Palestinians to whose plight I am sensitive but whose methods I deplore when they lead to violence. Violence is not the answer. Terrorism is the most dangerous of answers. They are frustrated, that is understandable, something must be done. The refugees and their misery. The children and their fear. The uprooted and their hopelessness. Something must be done about their situation. Both the Jewish people and the Palestinian people have lost too many sons and daughters and have shed too much blood. This must stop, and all attempts to stop it must be encouraged. Israel will cooperate, I am sure of that. I trust Israel for I have faith in the Jewish people. Let Israel be given a chance, let hatred and danger be removed from their horizons, and there will be peace in and around the Holy Land. Please understand my deep and total commitment to Israel: if you could remember what I remember, you would understand. Israel is the only nation in the world whose existence is threatened. Should Israel lose but one war, it would mean her end and ours as well. But I have faith. Faith in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and even in His creation. Without it no action would be possible. And action is the only remedy to indifference, the most insidious danger of all. Isn't that the meaning of Alfred Nobel's legacy? Wasn't his fear of war a shield against war?

There is so much to be done, there is so much that can be done. One person — a Raoul Wallenberg, an Albert Schweitzer, Martin Luther King, Jr. — one person of integrity, can make a difference, a difference of life and death. As long as one dissident is in prison, our freedom will not be true. As long as one child is hungry, our life will be filled with anguish and shame. What all these victims need above all is to know that they are not alone; that we are not forgetting them, that when their voices are stifled we shall lend them ours, that while their freedom depends on ours, the quality of our freedom depends on theirs.

This is what I say to the young Jewish boy wondering what I have done with his years. It is in his name that I speak to you and that I express to you my deepest gratitude as one who has emerged from the Kingdom of Night. We know that every moment is a moment of grace, every hour an offering; not to share them would mean to betray them.

Our lives no longer belong to us alone; they belong to all those who need us desperately.

Thank you, Chairman Aarvik. Thank you, members of the Nobel Committee. Thank you, people of Norway, for declaring on this singular occasion that our survival has meaning for mankind.