So is that a type of monument or memorial honoring all those who had to go through that?? I don't really think anyone would have a problem with that. And if they do, well, more fuel to the fire that we haven't come as far as we like to think we have.
The history of the Irish is often swept under the rug when discussing cultures that have been mistreated in not just American history but beyond. It's even been argued that the Irish were subjugated longer than any other group over the last 1000 years because of their British colonial status that began way before the first settlers reached America. Just focusing on American history, many Irish came over as indentured servants, working side by side with African slaves. They were even treated worse at times because of the pre-existing hatred that existed toward them going back to pre-America. Many Irish came over to America, Barbados and Australia on coffin ships, were essentially slaves and suffered the same indignities as African slaves. Here is one small article that just touches on some of the similarities between the way the British mistreated the Irish and West Africans during the slave trade: http://irelandsown.net/afroirish.html Ireland was a British colony for centuries before the first slave was brought over from West Africa. During the potato famine alone, a period of less than 10 years, over a million Irish people died while the ruling British were importing good food from Ireland. Many more died on coffin ships just during this period, not even considering the Irish that suffered on coffin ships going to Barbados and Australia during other periods: http://www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/famine/coffin.htm
There is no doubt that the Irish suffered hardships. However, they were never intentionally split from their families and kept from people who spoke the same language, prevented from attending the best schools, forbidden to learn to read and write, kept from holding elected office, etc.
To vent their angst, at least the Irish had Chinese coolies to kick around during rail road construction.
NO question about it!!! I completely agree. There are hardships and discrimination...and then there is slavery.
I think my son is the most racist person in America. When we were in Sweden we went to a McDonalds and one of the first things my son said was, "Dad, they only have white people working here?"
Here is one: http://www.trainweb.org/panama/chinesetragedy.html This may be disputed on grounds that it didn't technically happen on North American soil, but I fail to see how the circumstance could be any different.
Juicy Stream, my point is to really say that do to a past that has included the atrocities of the past have caused a culture to act and believe a certain way. I dont discount that other minorities have had it tough b/c each has faced their own issues in America. But one thing I have seen is the insensitiveness of many people to downplay the effects of slavery on the African American culture. The effect of Jim Crow, and being not looked at as a whole person, and still not having the legal right to vote unless the President signs it every 8 yrs. I just wish others would open their eyes and their minds to understanding these effects still resonate in people today and it isnt quite so easy to just GET OVER IT. Many people are still alive from the civil rights. Those who protested and those who released the hounds. What do you believe each of them taught their young children who are now CEO's, politicians etc. Its still there.
A couple of things, my dad is seventy two, he was 28 years old when his right to vote was fully secured. he's not ancient, and he lived through jim crow well into adulthood. the biggest tragedy of slavery is the loss of culture imho. there are things we do as african americans that we don't even realize where they came from, because we have no attachment to our past. not even an attachment to our slave ancestors before we began to talk about african ancestors. just to illustrate a simple example, one bigtexxx of all people brought up on this site. black people are often made fun because we don't fully pronounce the "ing" at the end of words or other phonetic sounds. well bigtexxx as well as myself learned in school part of the reason for that is that some of the language spoken by our ancestors brought over here didn't have words in their language that ended in those sounds. something as simple as that gets lost in the institution of slavery, yet we're made fun of, believe me I went to a white high school, it happened, for something we don't even know why we do. yet it is considered lazy and the negative stereotype reeps negative consequences. that is just a simple example of the tragedy of the loss of culture of where you are from.
This may be disputed on grounds that it didn't technically happen on North American soil, but I fail to see how the circumstance could be any different. You do fail....I'll give you that. (See what I did there? Kinda out of context as you did) So that quote you posted is claiming that the situation was very similar to the slavery we had for 300 years? In that tragedy, did those owners go out to China and bring people back? And being paid $8 a month is same as not being paid at all, is that what you are saying? Our own govt supported slavery to an extent but that can't be applied to the link you posted. How can you say the circumstance is the same? I think what happened to the Chinese was sick and immoral but it cannot be compared to the slavery days of America.
Every last one of the things you say never happened to the Irish actually did... This is the point I was making in my first post about lack of knowledge of Irish history. The Irish did not speak English, originally. They spoke a completely different language called Gaelic. Their names were Anglicized during their colonization and migration to America. A majority of the early Irish that came over here on coffin ships to be indentured servants couldn't read, write or spell their own name. There is a ton of historical accounts of the Irish people being kidnapped, separated from their families and sold off as labor or sent to penal colonies in other countries. Not only could they not hold office, their land was taken from them and they were a colony of the English for centuries. Even in early America, the early Irish Catholics were far from being able to hold office. They were basically slaves. A lot of historians argue that being an Irish Catholic indentured servant was worse that being a slave at one point, since slaves were considered more valuable and there was not the same pre-existing hatred toward them that existed toward Irish Catholics. There were generations of Irish families that didn't go to any school, not to mention the best schools. I'm not saying the experience of the Irish in America is synonymous with that of African Americans, just that Irish history is very poorly understood, in general... take the time to read about it and you will realize your misconceptions.
You missed the point. The circumstance I was referring to concerns the situation of Chinese coolies in Panama vs that in the Western states of the U.S. during the same time frame. If there are merits in the article I posted that provoke the discussion of the nature of slavery with regard to Chinese coolies in Panama, I don't see why it can't be applied to Chinese coolies in the U.S.
no, but it is a negative stereotype of black people being lazy. which can have negative consequences, in such things as job interviews.
all of this is true. what the English did to the Irish, taking their land and leaving them to starve is horrible. turning their land over to be colonized. and it's the prelude to the story of the Irish in America...the mass exodus from Ireland. my mother's maiden name has a Mc prefix. my grandfater was so proud that through the years his family had left the Mc on. she passed that name down through her sons...and i have through my oldest son. but we were discussing slavery in America as I understood it...and experiences of immigrants in America by America.
My last name has the "Mc" prefix. Did you know that "Mc" is actually an English prefix. It's similar to an African American with a last name of Johnson. There is nothing Irish about it just like there is nothing truly African about the surname Johnson. They used the "Mc" and "O'" prefixes when Anglicizing the names of the Irish because they were the most similar to the actual Gaelic names.
I understand the bit about GAelic, but the IRish were still allowed to be around other people who spoke Gaelic. Africans who were enslaved were separated from tribesmen who spoke the same language. They couldn't be near each other. Husbands were taken from wives, and children separated from families of slaves. There is also a difference of them not being able to read or write, and them being forbidden to learn reading and writing. As far as the mistreatment suffered in England that is another story. I thought we were speaking of the United States, and whether or not their treatment here was worse than slavery. As for not going to any school vs. the best schools, there is a difference between them not going, and them not being allowed to go, and it being illegal for them to learn to read, or write, or for anyone to teach them. Part of my own heritage is Irish, and I understand a lot of the suffering they went through.
The Irish Slave Trade - The Forgotten "White" Slaves Just one of thousands of articles available online regarding the misconception of Irish history. I only got into this topic because I saw a few incorrect statements regarding Irish history. Here are a few excerpts: I've read that the Irish were often referred to as white ******s and blacks were often referred to as smoked Irish. Here is one reference after a quick search (there are far more if you research it, including newspaper cartoons that would depict images): http://books.google.com/books?id=Lz...bJ6YEK&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2
