Who said he deserved to be in the all star game? Stevie Franchise is better in my book, no question. I know the people on this board know enough about the game to know that Nash is a good quality Point Guard (not as good as the top three: Payton, Francis and Kidd), but since you don't live in Dallas maybe you have not heard all the Steve Nash bashing that has gone on over the last 2 and a half years. It wasn't untill the second halfe of this season that he finally started getting some credit as a quality point guard. The Mavericks were a much better team with Nash in the starting line-up than with Howard Eisley. In my oppinion Nash is underrated, but I think that will change this year. Oh by the way, Nash avg'd 7.3 assists a game. ------------------ [This message has been edited by crash5179 (edited June 14, 2001).]
Crash, I'm not saying he's a bad player, he's probably a perfect fit for that Mavs team, but you take away Nash and insert Eisley and that's still a good team. As far as the bashing goes, don't you think he deserved it? Here comes this unproven point guard from Santa Clara to replace your traded away franchise player and Nelson hands him a 5 year 25 million dollar deal. He gets injured, so naturally people question his toughness and willingless to play through the pain, and he wasn't earning his paycheck. That combined with the Mavs losing, and he naturally becomes the scapegoat, and in some ways deservedly so. He's always had this ability in him, and fans were getting impatient with the lack of improvement he was showing. Bashing justified IMO. He was like a Kelvin Cato but to a lesser degree. Now he's justified his contract and the fans are embracing him. If only the same would happen to Cato. ------------------ "Modern bourgeois society with its relations of production, of exchange and property, a society that has conjured up such gigantic means of production and of exchange, is like the sorceror, who is no longer able to control the powers of the nether world whom he has called up by his spells." [This message has been edited by tacoma park legend (edited June 14, 2001).] [This message has been edited by tacoma park legend (edited June 14, 2001).]
Great thread. I have to take this as an opportunity to give props to my man Cuttino. This kid has a ton of heart and I love his game. Here's a guy who went in the middle of the second round and was therefore destined to sit behind Dickerson. He didn't even get to play in the very first game. But then he got his chance in the GS game and hit a big three from above the top of the key. After Maloney and Price went bust, he came in and played out of position at the one, and they didn't let him do the thing he was best at...taking it to the hole. He had to feed Dream, Barkley, and Pippen, and wait on the perimeter for something to do. Year two, he had to play behind Shan, and made a good run at sixth man. Year three, he did what he was asked to do, after re-signing and turning down opportunities to play elsewhere. Finally, he got his chance, and came through big time. The rap on Cat is undeserved. He hits 36% of his treys, he plays big in the fourth quarter, he hits a decent percentage of his two pointers, he hits a high percentage of his free throws, and consistently gets to the line. His assists and rebounds have increased dramatically. He needs to get more steals, but those should go up if he has better D at the 3-4-5 behind him. In summary, I love his game and still consider him one of the most underrated players in the league. Too many consider him a scorer who puts up questionable shots, but his shooting numbers belie that conclusion. So I choose Cat as the most underrated, although I have to agree that Ervin Johnson is the most underrated defensive player in the league. I have always liked his defense, and the job he did on Dream while at Seattle was masterful. ------------------
Most Over Rated: Kobe This is probably the most MADE superstar today he gets star calls etc . . . he *is* good but I'd take McGrady any day over him. His defense is not all world either like folx wanna say. Most underrated: Jamal Mashburn I think the miami time really screwed his rep. The Mash is d*mn good. I would love to have Mash at the SF position for us. Rocket River ------------------
River, you are a genius! Good call with Mash. ------------------ I have just realized that the stakes are myself I have no other ransom money, nothing to break or barter but my life my spirit measured out, in bits, spread over the roulette table, I recoup what I can nothing else to shove under the nose of the maître de jeu nothing to thrust out the window, no white flag this flesh all I have to offer, to make the play with this immediate head, what it comes up with, my move as we slither over this go board, stepping always (we hope) between the lines
The problem with Cato is his heart. Nash's hamstring and ankle injuries could heal but I don't think we can ever get a heart transplant for Cato ------------------
Where is University (some rediculous claim about the greatness of J-Will) Blue to claim that that waste of space Jason Williams is on the wrong side of everyones list(including mine btw). Overrated: Jason Williams Stromile Swift Kobe Bryant Allen Iverson Kevin Garnett Rasheed Wallace (the quickest swing I have ever seen from underrated to overrated) Larry Hughes and Jamal Crawford (how the heck do these two jag-offs get a fan club) Underrated: Cat Reef Bullard McGrady McDyess Oh and Tim Duncan, simply because some feel that he could possibly be overrated. ------------------ Liberals favor using artificial means to alter the normal to a state which facilitates and justifies how irresponsible they want to be [This message has been edited by Hydra (edited June 14, 2001).] [This message has been edited by Hydra (edited June 15, 2001).]
Overrated I forget to mention every player on NBA Jam. I mean, no one can shoot a fire ball and jump 20' in the air.
Overrated- Scottie Pippen: basically the same to MJ as Tiger Woods and his caddie. Eddie Jones: good defense, mediocre offense, big bucks...and his team plays well w/out him. Jason Williams: I can't believe some call him a talented PG. Underrated- Ray Allen: never hear anyone talking about him, but he might be a top 3 SG. Paul Pierce: always puts up good numbers...sure he's on a bad team, but that team has Antoine Walker on it. Antonio Mcdyess: Denver needs to build some better players around him...he should be an all-star. ------------------ Now saw off...there's nothing to see here.
You know, after those trades in our fantasy basketball league, I thought, heck, Ren is just learning how to play fantasy basketball. He can't be that wacky. Now I know you are ------------------ One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.
2nd team: MOST OVERRATED: Jason Williams (how could i forget) ??? MOST UNDERRATED: Alvin Williams no question which williams is better. p.s. The Cat: i'd love to have ervin on the rox! gimme ervin & either c webb or motay w/donyell (sorry thacabbage) and we can battle la.
Some of my most underrated guys would be.. Ray Allen..With this year's playoff performance,I guess the bloom is off the rose,but he has the complete game...great D great shooter can get to the rack...smart player Theo Ratliff...just can't stay healthy Andre Miller...I know he was selcted ahead of Francis for the Goodwill games,but he's still underrated...He can do alittle bit of everything and gets his teammates involved Keon Clark...Athletic as hell and should prove to be a nice power foward for a long time. Antonio Davis..I still don't think he gets the credit he deserves.Davis plays great D and now has an offensive game..big bucks coming through free agency..finally. Eddie Jones has been underrated his whole career. Eric Snow...One of the best defensive players in the game,tons of heart,and has developed well after leaving the shadow of the Glove.He obviously learned a lot in Seattle. Most overrated...and I'll just list them because there are many Penny J.Howard KVH Rodney Rogers Antoine Walker..bad shot selection and no d Stackhouse...He has improved tremendously,but will never be anything but a scoring machine for a bad team..you won't win with him. Googs Uncle Cliffy Horace Grant..expensive window dressing JASON WILLIAMS ...some more logs for the fire. ------------------ If I had my life to live over,I would have liked to have ended up as a sportswriter - Richard M. Nixon,1969
Overrated: SCOTTIE PIPPEN Kobe's Defense Tyronn Lue-it's sick how much L.A. people are praising this guy. He is being dubbed "Iverson Stopper" ditto for Derek "Flopper" Fisher Grant Hill-a Kobe Bryant minus the selfishness and talent Brian Grant-has done nothing since given a better opportunity in Miami Tim Hardaway-old and slow Antoine Walker Jason Williams Jerry Stackhouse Glen Rice Underrated: Francis and Mobley- Houston gets no love Ray Allen Tim Thomas Sam Cassell Bonzi Wells Andre Miller Lamar Odom Matt Bullard Paul Pierce Danny Fortson Antawn Jamison Shawn Marion Travis Best Marcus Camby ------------------ [This message has been edited by PosterizedByFrancis (edited June 15, 2001).]
Ooh, fun. Overrated: Jason Williams -- the guy can do amazing things with the ball, but so can people at Rucker Park. Jack-happy, immature, nonfactor in playoffs (8 and 3), headcase. When was the last time a guy with 10 and 6 carreer averages had as many fans, endorsements, etc.? honorable mention: Eddie Jones. Good player, but not a max player. Good magician, makes himself disappear. Most Underrated: Jamaal Mashburn: Was blowing up in Dallas, even with other scorers, got exiled to Miami where Riles tried to change his game, now is showing it again. proved this year that he can step it up in the playoffs. honorable mention: Ervin Johnson (beat me Cat!). ------------------ I have just realized that the stakes are myself I have no other ransom money, nothing to break or barter but my life my spirit measured out, in bits, spread over the roulette table, I recoup what I can nothing else to shove under the nose of the maître de jeu nothing to thrust out the window, no white flag this flesh all I have to offer, to make the play with this immediate head, what it comes up with, my move as we slither over this go board, stepping always (we hope) between the lines
Puedlfor - You think Peja is overrated ? I would take him for our 3 any day of the week!!! Baqui99 - Do you not think Cato is overpaid? Only Jim McGilvane and Big Country could give him a true run for his "money"! Ren Cooper - Larry Bird Overrated? That crack you are smoking is either really bad, or really good!! The only knock on Bird was his speed. He did everything but wash uniforms. Give me Bird over Magic in their prime any day !!! ------------------ Our purpose in life is to find our gift, and the meaning of life is to give it away!
Most Overrated: Scottie Pippen Yeah he has 6 rings but has done nothing without MJ. Most Underrated: Dennis Rodman Yeah I know he gets a tone of press for his off the course antics and some of the stunts he pulled during games but Dennis could play when focused. I still remember seeing his skinny but playing against Shaq, and Dennis was so active defensively tha the frustrated him (as much as anyone can disrupt Shaq). All-time (at least from the 80's) Underrated: Bobby Jones Played defense when playing defense wasn't cool. Definite team player who (I believe) started the current trend of the great 6th man. Shortly after the Celtics moved Kevin McHale the the 6th man. Honorable mention Underrated All-Time: Kevin McHale, Michael Cooper, Joe Dumars
david robinson is more overrated than duncan. if duncan isnt drafted by the spurs , robinson retires with no ring. i think robinson needed duncan more than duncan needed robinson. ------------------ http://www.democrats.com http://www.zxcproductions.com/web/Abe/abe.html mgh 1924-2001
Uh oh let's not start arguing over 80's and early 90's players now boys and girls. I'd take Magic..d@mmitt I couldn't help it... ------------------
Let's not talk most overrated, let's talk most overpaid with our main man Kelvin Cato topping the list. 1. Cato $7 mil (CD need's a brain check) 2. Ostertag $6 mil (ouch 2pts 3boards a game) 3. Jim MacIlvaine $7 mil (Is he in the league) 4. The Mermaid $14 mil(D. Robinson dominated again by a big man in the playoffs) 5. Big Country $11 mil (Brian Reeves, I would move to Memphis and leave Reeves) 6. Brian Grant $11 mil (Riley outsmarted nobody with this one) 7. Scotty Pipen $14 mil (The biggest bank robber in history) 8. Walt Williams $5 mil (I see a theme - Rocket players) 9. Matt Maloney $3 mil(Rudy's Son-in-law, I get it) 5. ------------------
