The more I review last year's games the more I am convinced..

Well....if there is one thing i have learned over the years of being around here, it is the fact that there is always someone misinterpreting facts..or making leaps in logic that suit their point of view..or just plain ol full of ****..

The poster in that thread who said that about a unconfirmed report that he "heard" from someone(probably fictional) is not a good reason to believe that KT was resentful of Yao.

1) Yao doesnt play KT's position, so he couldnt have been resentful of losing playing time...
2) Yao was contributing to wins by the point in the season that the trade occured..and if there is one thing I truly believe about KT, it is that he hates to lose. So it doesnt seem like that would be a good excuse..

If he truly had a inside source in the lockerroom, dont you think we would have heard more from him?
all that we had there was some random poster that was making up stuff to suit his view of the situation.

Like I said before.....a load of hooey...and thats being nice about it.

 

I'm curious about this statement. Is it your contention that JVG with basically the same team will win 9 more games than Rudy T this year because he's a "no-nonsense, bad-ass" coach?

 

5 win net gain?

That's a bit optimistic, however, I see it happening if we re-sign Posey.

Because we'll have added Piatowski, and these players are all BOUND to improve:

Yao
Griffin
MoT
Boki

Assuming our defense IMPROVES, I don't think our offense can become worse. We have a very talented roster offensively, and last year was stunning. Yao, MoT, Rice, Mobley and Francis. Offensively, we can't get any worse. We've also added Pike.

The question is, can JVG improve us offensively, defensively or is it just not possible to see that kind of difference in his first coaching year?

Dallas
Minnesotta
Lakers
Sacramento
San Antonio

Those guys will finish ahead of us, but I can see us competing with Portland, Seattle, and Phoenix. 6th seed is a very real possiblity.

 

We are talking about top 4 teams right?? Laker's weren't top 4. And while Sac, SA, Minny and Dallas, I am sure, all lost a couple times to teams they shouldn't have, none of them, NONE, were nearly as inconsistent as we were, hence "the cream always rises to the top".

Not only do I call it a hot streak, I call it a period where even though we were in the top 4 in the West, we were only 8-9 against playoff teams. Hardly indicative of a top 4 caliber team.

How did Rudy play EG and Mo at the right times? That statement makes no sense.

I am assuming by the "Pop seemed to be more open and better at bringing along new talent", you mean him playing Ginobili and Rudy not playing Nachbar. Has it ever occured do you that Nachbar just wasn't ready to contribute and Ginobolili was? Not all rookies that come into the league start out on equal footing.

No offense DR, but I think you are really grasping at straws to explain why we didnt finish ahead of the Spurs or in the Top 4. We had no major injuries or anything like that. Perhaps you did the same thing you are doing now and this is, you are overestimating what we have and what we are capable of.

lol

"Only" 9 games out of 4th??? To put that in perspective, Seattle only finished 10 games behind the Lakers. 9-10 games is a huge difference. HUGE.

Lets see, Minnesota finished 4th and they have added Cassell, Sprewell and Olowokandi to their mix. You really think we are going to make up 9 games on them when our roster basically stays the same???

I would love to see a breakdown of how Rudy cost us 9 games. I woud love to debate that point with you.

JVG may or may not be a better coach than Rudy and this coming reason will go a long way towards explaining that. To say that JVG's coaching is 9 games better than Rudy is pretty outrageous though.

 

The more I review this thread the more I am convinced........it's pretty sad.

 

In the 4th quarter, against Minny, Taylor scored 9 points to Garnett's 8. Now, Griff might have done a slightly better job defensively, but he was not going to match KG point for point like Taylor did.

Against SA, Duncan scored 7 points in the 4th, versus Taylor's 8. Again, I don't see how leaving Mo in cost us anything.

In neither game, Griffin's lame performance, offensively and defenisvely dictated leaving him on the bench.

So you say that JVG should improve us by 5 games, yet, you say Rudy's coaching cost us 9 games for the 4th seed. I am confused. You are being inconsistant with where you are placing blame.

They won 52 games with 3 rookies, none of which started for any majority of the season, one of which played less than 20 mins a game and one of which barely played at all. Also, don't you think the Jason Kidd trade had more to do with their improvement than anything else??

Your assesment of rookies being NBA ready is flat out wrong. Not all rookies come in ready to contribute like others. That is a fact. Are you saying that it doesn't take some rookies longer than others to develop and contribute??? Or do you just feel its a matter of them being given an opportunity??

Come on DR. This is ridiculous. If this was the case, then Taylor would have been starting over Griffin the entire season. Ditto for Cato. Rudy may have flaws, but he hardly has a history of playing high contract players no matter their production. I would like to think that perhaps Rudy saw what Boki had to offer in practice and deemed him not ready. And given Boki's performance, or lake thereof, in the summer league this year, I would say this could very well be the case.

Who did Pop put on his place??? The players on that team hardly require discipline. Not every coach in the league is a disciplinarian, yet, they still succeed.

You still have not given a legit reason as to why Utah wants him, other than the fact that he is a PF and they need one. You say I only look at issues on the surface, but this is exactly what you are doing right here.

I would doubt that Utah sees itself as a playoff contender. In fact, my guess is that they are going to be in the Okafor sweepstakes. How much does Taylor improve their chances of winning?? Not much and you know that. How much does he contribute to their salary cap? Quite a bit. Therefore, his negatives outweigh the fact that he is a PF and is filling a hole.

This is what I mean by "fabricating reasons for a trade". You assume that Utah wouldnt be concerned with Taylor's salary or production as long as they have a need at PF and he fills it. Fact is, Eggie was one of the worst starting PFs in the league last year and Taylor never could beat him out for the starter's job. That really should tell you something.

You even admitted yourself that Taylor shouldn't be finishing games against the good PFs in our division because he can't play D. So why would Utah want to pay $7 MIL a year to someone who you admit, is weak defensively and shouldn't be on the court during crunch time???

 

Ginobili was a 25yr old. If he wasn't NBA ready then, that would make him a bust, no?

and for every Parker, there is a Kirilenko who was sent back to Europe (by Jerry Sloan, no less) until he was "NBA ready."

As for the Rockets being in 4th place at one time, not according to the Riley stat that measures Home Losses vs Road Wins. That stat takes into account differences in schedules and is mathematically very sound. At the end of the year, for every game above .500 you are in the Riley Stat, you *are* 2 games above .500 in the actual W-L standings.

The Rockets were never more than 2 games over .500 in the Riley Stat. They were never better than a 7th seed in the Riley Stat at any point in the season.

DearRock,

We were in 4th place for 2 reasons: (1) the Yao Ming surprise factor combined with playing better team D with KT, and (2) favorable early schedule.

We were never worthy of 4th seed. Not close. Our road record dictated that more than anything else.

 

Regardless of which points you agree or disagree with, this is one of the best threads in a long time. The posters who are arguing are keeping it civil. The only thing sad about this thread is your pathetic post.

 

Utah have no choice Coddell. There aren't many better options than Mo once they realize that they're too far from the minimum salary, and there's no one to sign. Plus MoT is young.

Still I don't think Utah would do it. I think it's better for them to sign all the remaining free agents to one year deals.

 

Once again, this is a fabricated reason. More often than not, non playoff contenders have holes somewhere in their team and Utah is no exception. Yet, they don't tend to just trade for anyone to fill that hole and not consider contract/production. Just doesn't happen. So you can say that Utah would consider Mo because they need a PF, but seeing as how they are lottery bound, how does Mo's high contract/low production benefit them?? So they are just a slightly better lottery team??

You say Utah has no choice like they HAVE to make a trade. This is 100% incorrect and you know it. Teams don't have to do anything that is not beneficial to them.

Utah would not do it IMO because none playoff teams don't have a history of overpaying players just to fill a hole. For the same reason why teams don't have a history of doing such a thing. They could sign Samaki Walker to 1/7th the contract compared to Mo and get similar production (besides points).

 

1. Do you not remember EG going 1-7 in that SA game and us being blown out with him on the court?? Also, I believe Eggie was coming off that nasty fall in the LA game and went out early because of stiffness in his neck and back (he missed the next game against Dallas). So he wasn't even available.

With the Minnesota game, Mo was giving us O in the 4th quarter, which EG wasn't. Again, you take out Mo and you assume that EG could play better defensively but also give us what Mo was giving us on O.

We played almost .500 after Rudy got sick, yet played were 12-15 (after the Laker game), before he went down. So please explain how Rudy's absence made us lesser team because the record certainly doesn't reflect it.

NJ and LA's situations were not comparable to ours. Not by any stretch. NJ picked up one of the best players in the league, an MVP candidate in Kidd. The Lakers were a .600 team, with two of the best players in the league and a top playoff seed before Phil came along and he put them over the top. Again, neither of these situations are anywhere close to where we are.

Yet, you won't address why Nachbar wasn't playing. I think its presumptious to assume that Nachbar was a better option than Rice when you have absolutely no reasoning or evidence that he was.

Also, back to the Mo in the 4th quarter issue. Its hard to find fault leaving a player in that was giving us much needed low post scoring at that time and was getting us back in the game or keeping us in the game. You can't have one without the other. YOu might have gained the edge EG has on D, but you lose the O that Mo was giving us. Its wrong to assume that we would have been able to stay with Minny without his scoring. EG's absense in SA was already explained earlier.

And please, you are saying that Rudy should have started Yao earlier?? The minute he proved he belonged on an NBA court, he started. He had no training camp and was 2 weeks removed from a cross the globe plane trip and bball tournament. He proved he was not ready to start over Cato.

Again, its a case of rookies being at different levels coming into the league. Why was Yao so successful under Rudy??? You discredit Rudy for handling a rookie in Nachbar yet Yao, a rookie, did well. Perhaps one was ready and one wasn't. The theory that if one team can have success starting a 19 year old and a 25 year old International player, then others should do is way off base. History proves this is not always the case.

Mo has not started in this league for 2 years and his 3 years before that were on lottery teams.

His contract may have been acceptable before his injury (highly debatable), but its certainly not now and will never be until he proves otherwise. If it was still acceptable, Mo would have been traded and KT would still be here.

You guys make it seem like it is so easy to trade away Mo and his contract.

Mo is indeed a low post scorer and a decent mid range jump shooter. He is also a liability on D and on the boards, is still unproven coming off his injury and couldn't beat out one of the worst starting PFs in the league. Yet he and his contract are desirable to Utah???

Oh, and Harpring is hardly a reject. He has been a starter through his whole career. Plus the fact that he has never had a contract like Mo's. Apples and oranges.

 

The loss of two HOFers made Utah a non playoff team. Please don't try and insinuate otherwise. You really think a team with Harpring, Kirilenko and Ostertag and their three main stays are competing for a playoff spot with teams like us, Phoenix, Seattle and Golden State??? Even the Clippers.

Utah is probably the least taltented team in the West right now.

BTW, their offer sheets have been matched. So they may be trying to sign people to get them in the playoffs, but so far, no dice and there is hardly anyone left on the board that is going to make a difference for them.