(my longest post ever I think.....) I heard the conversation on 610 this morning, and I think that I would agree with John more then Lance. If the team was a blast too watch and scored 120, then who cares who is playing? One of the league's best players (Kobe) allegedley (sp?) raped a girl, but if he were to wear a Rockets jersey most of us would want to go watch him play. It's the style of play that hurts the game, not the style OF the players. Too many guys cannot hit a 15' jump shot. They can't shoot... instead they try to drive the lane out of control and dunk on someone. While this is incredible to see when it happens, it usually results in an unorthodox offensive play where a bad shot/pass is taken. Now by pure percentages (most the NBA is African-American) the guy doing this is African American. Go to your local playground and you will see white or hispanic kids trying the same gimmicks, problem is we're just not good enough to make it to the pros. So on this basis, you can throw the hip-hop/i can't relate/he's a thug argument out the window because you 12 yr old son is probably watching and1 tapes as we speak. You have to go down to the high schools and look how kids play there. They are too busy traveling with AAU teams when they should be at the park working on their shot. They learn to shoot a three point shot but can't pull up and hit a 12 ft bank shot. I think this will remail a problem (poor fundamentals in the NBA) until there are a number of teams and players who begin to play like Sacramento/Dallas where the emphasis is on passing and movement with out the ball and most importantly shooting the ball well. Once the European players (or players who possess fundamentals) begin to take up more and more roster spots, kids in the states will realize how they need to adjust their game to be more fundamental. Essentailly I think the European influence in the NBA will bring the game back to where it was in the 80's and in it's prime. When this will take place? Hopefully in the next 5-10 years. So I have gone a little off topic... its the style of play that attracts and turns people off. NOT THE STYLE OF THE PLAYERS... race and lifestyle should have no bearing on sports in my opinion. That's what makes playing sports so incredible. You are judged by what you do on the court, not who you are.
Apparently Carl Dukes and Ralph Cooper don't count as black? Carlin Hartman, Carlton Thompson, and Michael Murphy are all frequent guest commentators on 610. They must not count either. Sigh... While blacks represent an overwhelming % of talent pool in the the NBA and NFL, they do not represent an overwhelming % of the talent pool of journalists and broadcasters. To think that they should be over-represented in this field is just faulty logic -- similar to the black coaches argument.
1. They aren't on "Sportsradio" 2. Carlin who? Carlton Thompson hasn't been on there in forever and Michael Murphy's visits are as infrequent Rockets' hamburger giveaways. 3. You have to get HIRED to be included in a talent pool
Great points Jeff, thanks. BTW Kobe is REALLY starting to wear on my nerves, if that guy is an example of the NBA's demise I would not argue. Show some humility for God's sake Man!
You mean that huge fur coat he wore to the game in Denver last night was not an example of showing humility? Then again, Joe Namath looked good in his back in the day.
I THOUGHT MM WAS WHITE! I figured Bronco II had some intimate interracial knowledge that he was waiting to thrust upon me. I should have known better.
One thing that is killing all American sports is the length of the games. Using b-ball and football as an example - think of all the time outs and various official clock stops for commercials that ruin the flow of the game. This did not happen as much 15 - 20 years ago and it's a much bigger deal than any perceived image problems. Whether you love soccer or hate it the length and quality of a game hasn't really changed at all because there is no way to add extra time outs etc. to destroy the flow. And soccer players are just as overpaid, have just as many problems, and come from all walks of life. Who really wants to watch a 3 hour + basketball game anyway?
I am interseted in basketball as entertainment and I get a vicarious ego boost when the home town is winning but I only go to live games when someone give's me tickets. Not because of the "culture' offends me but because it is way to expensive and way to much trouble; especially when I can watch 75 games a year on my own TV. I've got my own cheap food , the bathroom's 20' away, I'm already home as soon as the game is over, I can change the channel if our shooting percentage is under 30 or we have 10 turnovers at halftime. Call me lazy or a weak fan but this is my life and I'll make my own choices. As for the rest of the world, Houston is a bad basketball market for the same reason it is a bad mass transit market, population density. Their are not enough people within an easy travel radius of downtown to fill the gym every night. If there were fewer games and a more limited playoff scenario it would make each regular season game more compelling. But invest 5 hours and a couple of hundred dollars 41 times to see mediocre entertainment? Why is more relevant than why not.
AB - Isn't Andre Ware a full-time commentator for Texans games? I know that's only one person... but I thought one of the other announcers was Hispanic (Matt Jackson?). Whatever happened to Ralph Cooper? The guy who used to be on "Tell It Like It Is" / "Extra Points", the Channel 13 (ABC) sports show on Saturdays? He was awesome; much better than Kenny Hand and the other guy. Back on topic - urban culture - you're right. It's now equivalent to pop culture, which means it's close to mainstream culture anyway. I don't think it's a misrepresentation, though. I think it's the easy copout to explain why the NBA went from hottest sport to boring sport. Never mind the retirement of Jordan and lack of universally-appealing replacement (here comes LeBron, though), the decline in scoring, the rise of small-market teams as championship contenders, the supposed East Coast bias... As for the argument that the NFL is filled with thugs, too.. Yes, but no one will ever state the NFL is going through problems right now. If it were you can be certain people would mention it.
Houston is a bad b-ball market because it's a football town. It has very little basketball tradition (minus the two championship years). No one associates with the current team because they're not homegrown and have done nothing to make Houston proud, i.e., they haven't won. Houston is fair-weather. You can't deny it. So are most cities. In this instant gratification culture, people are unwilling to support a team as it grows together. You must win NOW. Look at this BBS. The team is above .500 with a new offensive and defensive scheme. The Western Conference has NEVER been this loaded. The second-year center is now getting double-teamed or zoned out of the offense all the time. Yet, the biggest, most adamant supporters of the team (who are here on this BBS, most likely), are also the loudest critics. You (not you specifically, GP) expect the casual fan to find the team interesting at all?
Again, inherent in AB's argument is that the presumably white program directors are being racist by not hiring blacks. AB makes the assumption that there exist qualified black candidates for these positions. This is questionable. He then makes the next assumption that the white program manager will not hire these candidates because the program manager is racist. This is extremely questionable. AB, you must understand that when you make arguments like this, people will be offended. People usually do not like being called racist, as you implicitly are calling them. Obviously you don't grasp this because you repeat it in half of your posts. Secondly, what is your ultimate goal with all of the race-based complaining that you do? When exactly will you be satisfied? Is it when more handouts are given to blacks? Is it when blacks are over-represented in all fields? Most people who only advocate the advancement of their own race are not considered to be racially sensitive. Think about that for a moment. For you to say that more blacks should be in radio or on the Astros or in coaching positions implies that there should be less whites/hispanics/asians/others in these roles. Why do you think that your group is worthy and none else are? This represents very immature thought and absolutely no value placed on others races' points of view. A true meritocracy is race-blind. You are not.
I'm with MB for the most part. The players were not AS rich as they are now (by a long shot). And salaries were not continually being discussed in the media, nor were players commenting publically on being 'insulted' by million dollar offers. Jordan got $2.5 m (which many thought was obscene in 1985 for 5 yrs). Lebron got $90m for 7 years. It is much tougher to relate. How long did we debate whether Steve F deserved a Max deal, or how tremendously insulting it would be to offer him only $60m? The preening and posing seems to have increased too. Part of this, i suppose, is the 24/7 coverage we now get. And with greater free agency rights, the players seem to be more mercenary than before. THis doesn't bode well for fan loyalty. Add to that teams threatening to leave town (Oilers and Rockets) and it becomes less difficult to become indifferent to your team. The cost of games is also out of reach. Most families simply cannot justify the cash needed to go to a game. It can only be justified as part of your business 'promotional' budget. Lower the prices, connect with the community, and have player continuity and the fans will come out. Very tough to do given the economic path most professional sports have ventured down. It's got nothing to do with the 'appearance' of the players.
The 'Stros drew over 30K a game downtown, over the course of twice as many games. The people are there, the issue is cost & performance on the court.
