1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

The Minimum Wage Is Too Damn Low

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Cohete Rojo, Feb 13, 2013.

  1. tallanvor

    tallanvor Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    18,649
    Likes Received:
    11,674
    why would u care about the latter?
     
  2. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,681
    Likes Received:
    16,205
    Probably because that's the claim that he was responding to?

     
  3. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,681
    Likes Received:
    16,205
    That said, you might find this interesting too - probably a little more logical a correlation than a change to fiat currency.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,681
    Likes Received:
    16,205
    Or a longer term version.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. tallanvor

    tallanvor Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    18,649
    Likes Received:
    11,674
    that didnt answer my question at all.
     
  6. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    61,740
    Likes Received:
    41,167
    You people are getting straight pwn3d by the Commodore.

    The operative message here is that most of the arguments against raising the minimum wage and predictions of immediate mechanization in response thereto have a proven track record of complete failure in recent months. By and large, the biggest consequence of minimum wage raises is to improve more people's lives in a signifcant way on a net basis. Or something that we universally recognize as "success". Alternative views have more or less been shown to be wrong. Not just questionable, but wrong.

    It's as wrong as predictions of Obamacare's failure, Obama destroying the economy, hyperinflation, and basically absolutely everything those guys have tried to forecast or project over the last decade or two tangentially related to the topic.

    The argument isn't really an evidentiary one so much as a psychological or psychiatric one. Why do they persist in dumbassery? Do they believe their own dumbassery? I don't know really. It's not that interesting though.
     
  7. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,681
    Likes Received:
    16,205
    That's because your "question" keeps changing as you realize you don't know what's going on and are trying to shift gears. He cared about the topic of when the 1% income shifted because that's the discussion that was going on. It's that's simple.

    Just because you tried to change the topic doesn't mean everyone else did. You didn't understand what GR was talking about, then made a stupid claim that he couldn't read charts, then tried to hide it by changing topics when called out on it.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. tallanvor

    tallanvor Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    18,649
    Likes Received:
    11,674
    ive asked the same question from the beginning and dont get an answer. Not my fault GR cant read a chart or answer a question.

    very first post:

     
  9. Remii

    Remii Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2013
    Messages:
    7,622
    Likes Received:
    106
    Couldn't he be concerned about both...???

    That seems like a running in circles question.
     
  10. tallanvor

    tallanvor Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    18,649
    Likes Received:
    11,674
    why would someone be concerned with anyone's income growth increasing?
     
  11. Awesome

    Awesome Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2008
    Messages:
    1,131
    Likes Received:
    24

    I worked for GE and it blows.

    They give bonuses to salary employees only

    They use temps to fill in jobs for as long as possible then let them go when the benefits by law time comes around

    They let go of %10 of their employees every year

    They're only concerned strictly about the numbers and how much more you can increase their business.

    I've seen people give time, sacrifice days weeks and months for projects, make them successful then get let go anyway.

    This company operates everything on what its bottom line is no matter what.

    They buy other companies then cut the benefits down if its higher than their own which many times it is because they hardly give you much of anything and make you foot ALOT of the bill on your medical insurance.

    I loathe companies like this and its really time to stop giving them the benefit of the doubt. They have and make plenty of money but they'll demolish an entire department if it means saving a few bucks and whoever is left at the company is there to pick up the slack.... Its a mess if you ask me
     
  12. mtbrays

    mtbrays Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2007
    Messages:
    8,599
    Likes Received:
    7,981
    For ****'s sake.
     
  13. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    46,550
    Likes Received:
    6,132

    [​IMG]
     
  14. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    35,052
    Likes Received:
    15,226
    Because as the economy in general grows, the profits are split according to the bargaining power of the stakeholders. In the mid-20th century, labor had a relatively strong bargaining position and many workers prospered. More recently with computers, robotics, and other automation of labor, as well as globalization, capital has greatly strengthened its hand vis-a-vis labor, and now take a much larger share of the fruits of our endeavors. One-percenters, as the equity-holders who benefit from the changing dynamic, make a lot more money. In other words, the income growth one-percenters are enjoying is money that would go into labor's pockets if they had the bargaining power they did in 1950.
     
  15. tallanvor

    tallanvor Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    18,649
    Likes Received:
    11,674
    the chart disproves this. Anyways its illogical to begin with. there is not a finite amount of value in the world.
     
  16. Remii

    Remii Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2013
    Messages:
    7,622
    Likes Received:
    106
    Because their income is increasing at the detriment of the rest of society. Awesome and JV gave good examples of why you should be concerned.
     
  17. tallanvor

    tallanvor Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    18,649
    Likes Received:
    11,674
    how so? who's detriment?
     
  18. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    35,052
    Likes Received:
    15,226
    One, the chart doesn't speak to it at all.

    Two, I'm not saying that the value is finite. I'm saying capital and labor collaborate to make value. They've produced $x worth of value. Of $x, capital gets y% and labor gets z%. And over the past several decades, y has been increasing and z decreasing.

    I'd go on to say that our public policy choices are one significant component of determining the relative bargaining strengths. We have made some choices that prop up labor's claim, and others that give capital strength. I think this graph suggests we've allowed the negotiation to tip too far in capital's favor and that we should make policy changes that will make money slide the other way. When conservatives hear that, they call it redistribution, as if the current distribution were somehow original or even natural. But, it's just a negotiation.
     
  19. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    51,779
    Likes Received:
    20,437
    Perhaps some looking into the collapse of different nations and civilizations will help you come to an answer.
     
  20. Remii

    Remii Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2013
    Messages:
    7,622
    Likes Received:
    106
    Read Awesome's post... And then you got companies like Wal-Mart who use even shytier tactics and then these super companies don't pay their fair share of taxes like a small business owner would have to pay.

    Yours.... Many of Wal-Mart's employees are on government assistance and the taxpayers are flipping the bill because they're too greedy to pay their workers.
     

Share This Page