Just a question borne of curiousity, but do you require they have the CPA, or just be qualified to have the CPA? And by that, I mean that a person can have the coursework and pass the exams and still not be a CPA in a good many states until they have a year (sometimes more. It was two years when I first graduated) of accounting work experience. Not that I'm interested, I was just wondering (and for all I know, they changed the requirements again and don't require the experience).
There was a time recently when the UT-D program was actually fairly well respected locally. I think a lot of that, though, was their focus on communcations technology and telecommunications, which is not exactly an area with tons of jobs available right now.
Well, even if it's a very limited basis on which you based your opinion, at least it's something, I guess. They are far from useless. For me, I would never had gotten a fast-track job in my industry if I didn't have an MBA. It was required. Within 1 1/2 years of graduating, I was the corporate Director of Finance and assisting my company in an IPO. After only 2 1/2 years of graduating, I vested in my first stock options. No way with a BBA, pard. As for the degree itself, it depends largely on the program, esp. the professors. It may be a paper-chase in some or maybe even many instances, but not mine. I learned far more in 1 1/2 years in grad school than undergrad. The BBA was useless, the MBA was not. I learned some things from a couple of professors that have benefitted me in business repeatedly.
I would agree that it tends to make more sense from a standpoint of learning something new if you are, e.g., a lawyer (like me) or an engineer. But I think in terms of having the degree on your CV, I guess it improves the chances of people with a business degree as well. For us non-native speakers, an additional aspect is that by going through an MBA program in English, we kind of document that we can do business in English as well, and this would apply to people with a previous business degree in their own country also.
I agree and that goes for just getting your Bachelor's...Any degree is a prerequisite now, and it gets you the interview... However, it still doesn't guarantee you anything...You get out of it what you put into it...Unless you just want the recognition, there is no need as it doesn't get you any higher paying job, just an opportunity to interview for one..
Good grief SJC, "opportunity cost" is something that I learned in high school... if that's what they teach MBA's then I'm with rimbaud. Next you'll be telling me about supply and demand graphs, and where they intersect as being some equilibrium point or something.
Agreed. But that's why I prefaced my answer to him with "I work in IT and not with 'bidnizz' people". I agree. Which is why I didn't generalize - I just gave him an opinion based upon my industry. I don't reject MBA's or accept them - I don't care one way or the other about them since their skills mean nothing to my line of work. Why would it make me feel better? Odd statement. I agree, but I know from experience that people that go to college often go because "it's the thing to do after high school". Heck, that's why I did it. To me, someone who has written his own program, started his own company, or succeeded or attempted something out of the ordinary is more important than someone who happens to have gotten a degree because "it was the thing to do to get a job". The 18 yr old example you use is exactly one of the reasons why I probe deeper for their knowledge instead of seeing what GPA they got in college. Oddly enough, among the most intelligent people I've ever worked with or interviewed (in my opinion anyway) were liberal arts majors who happened to have found places in IT by some means. I don't know, but I find them far more intelligent than number crunchers and coders. Perhaps it is just coincidence.
Originally posted by rrj_gamz ...However, it still doesn't guarantee you anything...You get out of it what you put into it... That's true Unless you just want the recognition, there is no need as it doesn't get you any higher paying job, just an opportunity to interview for one.. That's not. Sure, in some instances, but not in others. I speak from experience as an MBA who interviewed for jobs, and also as a manager who has reviewed hundreds of resumes. I would never have gotten my first 2 jobs in my industry w/o the MBA. In fact, there may have only been 1 job that was not greatly effected by my MBA. I've also hired for positions that pretty much req'd an MBA, and others where I selected non-MBAs over incompetent MBAs. Many here seem to be trying to come up with some simple, consistent rules, but that's not realistic.
Maybe not more important, but I would say that a person like that is not less likely to be financially successful. A person like that also probably has shown more courage than someone (like me) who just walks down a certain already beaten path. Transfering this away from the IT scenario to the scenario of a friend of mine who worked in my team - he left, had an offer from Mercedes-Benz to do business development, then decided to screw corporate careers and started his own Internet p*rn company (or, to be more accurate, he joined another guy's already existing company as a partner). Anyway, a few months later, the guy was so filthy rich already that he would have had to work 20 years at Mercedes to even get close to that. All that while I (with a much "better" education) was getting ready to do an exec. MBA, etc. and not nearly making as much money as he was. Another example is another friend of mine who is a trader, managing director at a large German investment bank. That guy had dropped out of college after a few semesters, joined a smaller bank and then worked his way up for several years, without even a college degree at all. All that while I was spending time in college, etc. This guy makes tons of money, and if he had spent all the time instead trying to get more degrees, he would not be making it. Point only being that more college education is not "better" or "worse" in my opinion from a standpoint of being more important or it guaranteeing you necessarily more money in the future. Obviously, knowing these two guys and seeing them drive up my driveway with their new Porsches made me think a little bit about why the heck I seem to be wasting my time with more education! I think a tendency would be that more college education would be preferred by: - more risk-averse people (safer career path) - people who are undecided yet which career they really want to pursue in the longer term - people who enjoy a certain freedom which spending more time in college affords - less money, but stretching the freedom of being a student a little longer - people who like to combine going abroad with still being a student - gives you more opportunities to really get to know foreign cultures and countries than if you just do it later while you work, fly in and out in two days.
Atleast the rest of the thread made my choices seem a little better, esp since getting a CPA was my second choice
Rocket Fan- Vandy alum here '97. Email me. I've worked in investment banking; I may have some contacts for you. email---> ibcdos@yahoo.com
Ultimately I think it just gives you more choices. Which is significant. Because that gives you more opportunity for success. Although not guaranteeing it. And when you listen to motivational speakers you quickly learn that life is about choices. So if you have more of them open to you then you have a greater chance at personal satisfaction.
Cohen, When you got these jobs w/ your MBA, when was this? Was it a few years ago? Or just recently? Because the times have changed w/ getting a job w/ an MBA then and getting one now. Like I said in the IT thread, experience is key while getting your bachelors or masters. That addition can land you jobs left and right. The employer knows that you have worked w/ someone w/ similarity to their software, hardware, projects, etc. Working in the field gives you that knowledge that you don't get in school.
The company I originally worked for was acquired a few years ago, and up until then, the fast-track management program I was hired into required an MBA. Again, don't try to come up with these hard and fast rules. An MBA won't help land every job, and it won't result in a higher starting salary in all instances. In other cases it will. In other cases, it will if you are able to communicate what you gained in your MBA. For me, even after landing jobs, the MBA has been indispensible. During the IPO, at times I was the only company rep in a room full of attorneys and investment bankers (all of whom had MBAs). It provided me w/ the knowledge to hang with them and get my job done (but I wouldn't have even been contacted by an executive recruiter and hired for that job w/o my MBA anyway). Since I started my own company, the MBA prepared me for the trials and potential pitfalls of entrepreneurship (a hot topic when I studied for my MBA). Again, the BBA is what was meaningless to me, other than being able to put it on the resume. Almost all of it was boring and common sense. The MBA went far beyond that, and was also an enjoyable mental challenge.
Just wanted to post this article from today: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm.../ap/20040126/ap_on_hi_te/college_seniors_jobs High-Tech Degrees Don't Guarantee Jobs NEW BRUNSWICK, N.J. - College seniors are finding that a high-tech degree isn't the job guarantee that many thought it would be. A recent report from Forrester Research has projected that as many as 3.3 million American white collar tech jobs will go to overseas workers by 2015. While there are hopeful signs outside the technology sector, outsourcing of computer programming and customer service jobs to China, India and other countries with cheaper labor costs have dimmed prospects for seniors like computer-science major Andrew Zhou, said Richard White, director of career services at Rutgers. Eager to ride the high-tech tide, Zhou double-majored in computer science and finance when he arrived at Rutgers University in 2000. But as graduation approaches, Zhou is pinning his hopes on finance and dropping the idea he once had that computer know-how guaranteed him a job. "Four years ago, it seemed like an awesome major," Zhou said as he waited to speak with a recruiter for a telecommunications management firm at Rutgers' annual career day. "Now, nobody wants to get in because all the jobs are going to India." White noted that "Jobs that used to be available for U.S. citizens are being diverted overseas where the quality is equal or better at a fraction of the cost." The fallout from outsourcing and stagnant U.S. technology market means that seniors at San Jose State University — in the heart of Silicon Valley — face yet another "very tight" job market, said career center director Cheryl Allmen-Vinnedge. "The entry level positions just aren't out there now," agreed Halbert Wilson. A January graduate with a degree in information technology from the New Jersey Institute of Technology, Wilson is counting on contacts made during an internship with a pharmaceutical company to help him get a job. Experts say the best sectors for seniors to find employment are in finance, health care, advertising and government. And a jump in the number of campus recruiters visiting some campuses is giving students reason for hope. At the University of Mississippi, for instance, recruiting coordinator Gina Starnes said career center interview rooms are booked solid by corporate representatives during February — the month many companies converge at the Oxford, Miss., campus to troll for job candidates. After two consecutive years of little or no growth, the National Association of Colleges and Employers — which tracks college to workplace job trends — is forecasting a 12.7 percent jump in hiring this year. NACE spokeswoman Camille Luckenbaugh warned, however, that while 51 percent of the employers surveyed by the group said they would increase recruitment of college graduates this year, another 28 percent indicated they would curtail hiring on campuses. A leading Internet source for college students seeking entry-level jobs said listings in the accounting and retail fields have both jumped by over 50 percent compared with last year. Job opportunities in the financial, health care and advertising sectors also have increased, said Michelle Forker, vice president of MonsterTRAK, a subsidiary of Monster.com, the Online job service. And the Partnership for Public Service — a nonprofit that promotes civil service career — is predicting that the federal government will fill 73,000 jobs in the next six months. Internal Revenue Service (news - web sites) recruiter Doug Fuller was besieged at the Rutgers' career day. "The economy has perhaps changed the mind-set of this generation," he said, "Where they think more about jobs with greater stability than you could encounter in the private sector."
Healthcare is definitely going to be the sector with the largest growth in the next 10-15 years. Here's the $64,000 question...Will IT ever make a comback?
This is good question as my wife (currently working for a big 4 firm) would fit into this category. She has passed the CPA, has all the course work, has a BBA and MS in Accounting, but has about 4 months left of work to get her actual CPA certificate. I haven't actually seen a resume fitting this description for somebody trying to get into our group...only people who already have the CPA cert. I will say this: One of the reasons that CPA's are so sought after is that MOST (not all) have worked in a public accounting firm, (either audit, tax, or consulting) and have the kind of work experience (read: slave labor) that companies value. In other words...if you have a CPA, you probably worked hard and "paid your dues" to get it...in school, in testing, and in work experience. So, I guess you could make the point that having a CPA guarantees a certain work experience that most firms find valuable on top of the fact that its pretty hard to get one.
Well, I didn't find the coursework required for the BBA-Accounting degree to be all that difficult, but that's where I stopped (actually, I was partially through the Master of Tax program at Baylor when I came to the realization that accounting wasn't for me). The exam and the work experience might well have been considerably more difficult (and to get the CPA, there is the 150 hour requirement that wasn't in place when I first graduated. But the 150 hour requirement doesn't specify additional accounting coursework beyond what was required before, to my knowledge). When I was graduating, the jobs were pretty scarce. The shakeout from the Big 8 going to the Big 6 was still going on, and it was during 91/92 recession. I imagine the situation is not that different now with two fewer big firms and jobs, in general, still being somewhat scarce. But at the point that someone would be hiring a CPA, that person would already have at least a year or work experience. It sure seems that those finding it the most difficult to get jobs in their field are those straight out of school. So, I guess you could make the point that having a CPA guarantees a certain work experience that most firms find valuable on top of the fact that its pretty hard to get one. And I guess that's the point I just tried to, once again, make.
