another reason why they are so similiar hehe. Defense- Baron>Francis Offense-Francis>Baron an unbiased analysis right there.
I guess you didn't see the playoffs when Davis dropped the back to back triple doubles. I guess you didn't see the Hornets at all be a 5 seed when their leading scorer missed over half the season and the playoffs. If you haven't seen Davis play, then maybe you are slow. The same was said about Brand and all he did was be 2nd in the league in double-doubles behind the nba mvp while playing in the west.
no need to be harsh. i had doubts about baron in the beginning of the season but have changed my beliefs on the guy. but that series against orlando was when i knew this guy is for real. not a bibby-like 'for real', but a REAL for real. brand...now he's a different story. people had doubts b/c he played in the east. but since he just improved his stats in LA, i highly doubt there are still those naysayers.
I guess you didn't see Austin Croshere's playoff performance in 2000, eh? Or how about Robert Horry's... well, any year. Or maybe you saw Chris Webber disappear against LA? Crazy things can happen in the playoffs. Sometimes, people overachieve. Other times, they underachieve. Baron Davis played better in the playoffs than he had in his life. Does it mean he's worth the max? No. It means he had a good playoff run. No more, no less. Incidentally, Francis's shooting percentage would benefit enormously from the existence of any inside-presence at all. Somethign Davis is fortunate enough to have.
man i'm addicted to cc.net if i stay up til 3 in the morning replying to posts. but the one (BIG) difference b/t baron and croshere/horry is that he had a pretty good regular season as well. his transition from reg. season to the playoffs (statwise) was seamless. that's why i said that he's for real rather than a bibby 'for real'. bibby had decent numbers (13 points and like 7 assists i think) in the reg season (like croshere/horry has) and then turned it up a notch in the playoffs (like croshere/horry did) when webber vanished
Actually, Croshere did have good regular season #'s that year. And Horry had a couple of good stat years followed by magnificent playoffs (for the Rockets). People thought he was a shot-blocking Pippen for a while. But I'll agree with you that Baron Davis is a very fine basketball player. I just don't think he's a franchise player.... and it seems that when someone gets signed for the max who isn't... it always turns out bad 2-3 years down the road. Maybe you have to sign such players for the max to keep them. I'll even agree that Davis could be a franchise player some day. But he isn't yet. There's a reason why 1st round draft picks can't get signed for the max. And for the same reason, imo, neither should Baron Davis. Unfortunately, it's probably true that the NBA doesn't work that way anymore. Someone shows a bit of potential, and teams have to lock them up immediately, on the *chance* that the contract might be "worth it." Bleh...
i'll counterargue and ask why and how steve is a 'max player' then? what has he proven as of late? i know it's a low and redundant blow but if the question should be asked about baron the same should be asked about steve. and you're right..nowadays max players aren't the proven playoff players anymore...most are just given max money just on the potential of being a max player.
If teams could, they would try to sign LeBron James to a MAX contract. Its all in an effort to "lock up" the player to prevent him from going to another team and hoping that he turns out to be a franchise player. There should only be about 10-12 MAX players, but unfortunately there are many more than that.
Steve's probably not a max player after last year, because of the head-aches. Lots of risk there. Although he was after the year before. To me, the 2001 Steve Francis was worth the max. He was by far the best player on a 45 team in a very difficult conference. THe 2001 Francis was better than the 2002 Davis. Hence, I'd make the case that we *know* Francis can play at a level worthy of the Max. However, we've only seen that in Davis for a few brief games.
agreed. back then getting a lot of money meant that you have made it...you represented your franchise because you were the best player on your team and one of the best in the league. present time....too many overpaid (in NBA terms) players getting money just on their potential to BE that franchise player. Paul Pierce, Antoine Walker, Jason Kidd, Tracy McGrady, Allen Iverson, Dikembe Mutombo, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Andre Miller, Jermaine O'Neal, Ray Allen, Baron Davis, Vince Carter, Dirk Nowitzki, Steve Francis, Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan, Karl Malone, Michael Olowokandi, Kobe Bryant, Shaquille O'Neal, Shawn Marion, Chris Webber, Gary Payton. these players have proven their worth...which is worth the max: Duncan Bryant Malone Payton Iverson Kidd S. O'Neal the rest are max worthy...but should be cautioned. out of that list that espn gave here are the DESERVING players so far: Pierce Mcgrady Carter Ray Allen Nowitzki Garnett players that are max worthy given ON POTENTIAL: Francis Davis Marion Miller players that are max worthy just because they are part of a dying breed (centers): Olowokandi J. O'Neal Mutumbo the only one that isn't worth the max (b/c i don't like the guy): webber
I don't think Miller is worth the max at all. Think very hard about how utterly, horrificly terrible his Cleveland teams have been, every single year he's in the NBA. And in the East, one good player can instantly turn a team into a playoff team (or at leat contender). So, what do we have to indicate his talents? Well, we have his PPG average. But then, somebody has to score for that atrocious score. You could put a college team in the NBA, and they'd average at least 60 a game. What about his assists? Three words: jump shooting offense. Nearly anytime someone scores for Cleveland, it's from a jump shot. And who's the one who usually gives them the ball? Andre Miller. Want to know someone else with the same talents? Terrell Brandon. Yes, Miller's a better rebounder and younger. But I don't think a younger version of Terrell Brandon is worth the max... and neither is rebounding in a PG.
If you don't like Steve's wanna be GM attitude WHAT THE HELL DO YOU CALL DAVIS'S ATTITUTE? They offer him the max. . he says shove it. he is very vocal about wanting out. . so it is f*cking Charlotte's bargaining position. I'll take stevie thank you Rocket River
As Jim Paxson says, "We know Andre. We aren't winning with him. Nobody's coming to our building to see Ander Miller play."
What happens with the money, if Steve becomes the third best All Star on the Team? How do you take care of Mr. X and Mr.Y ? Will there be enough to go arround in say FIVE more Seasons?
If that happens, then at least one person will have to walk. Plain and simple. If we traded away Steve, maybe we could resign Mr. X and Mr. Y. But for now, we need to concentrate on keeping our team together, and Francis will do that.
andre miller is not max worthy, he's an all-star calibur complimentary player, but not a franchise talent. kandi-man isn't either, i don't care how many centers there are. he's a career underacheiver. to quote rezdawg: "If Baron deserves the MAX, then so does Steve. If Steve deserves the MAX, then so does Baron." imo, they're the most comparable players in the league but i'd take steve first. put him in the east with a consistent post presence the last 3 years and he'd have contended for mvp.
rez-dawg - Totally agree about Kandi... sorry, I'd rather have a 20 and 8 SF than a 12 and 10 C. Even if it means playing small ball. The 20 and 8 SF is still going to get you more wins. And I hate that lame, tired excuse that you need a true center to "stop Shaq." True centers don't fricking stop shaq. Nobody does. IMO, the best thing you can do is fight fire with water... and put out a perimeter shooter that negates his shot blocking ability and makes him work. I'd rather have a Divacs/Smits/Ming type guy any day, over the Olowakandi. Hell, you could make a case that Kandi actually hurts you against Shaq, since it lets Shaq play HIS game.
haven:- No NBA player at present, playing legitimate bassketball, is able to upset Shaq's game. Only a player tall enough with the talent to shoot over him from anywhere on the floor is going to be effective offensively. Defensively we must wait for injury, old age,retirement or death. At present Shaq cant be stopped!
unless I misunderstood you haven, I feel the need to make the correction that 'Davis most certainly got out of the first round'. BTW, with your logic one would ponder why McGrady got out of the first round.... and 29 teams would pay him as much as they possibly could. I'd make other comments about Davis, how he carried his team w/ Mashburn down but I have to runnnn...
