You know, it just dawned on me that all this money returned to owners isn't automatically "lining Les' pockets", like some posters suggest. Correct me if I'm wrong, but BRI is just gross income for the league. There are tons of other expenses besides player salaries that go into calculating the bottom line. I'm assuming that the reason for the salary tax is to insure that, after all the overhead, that small market teams can at least compete without having to bankrupt themselves. Otherwise deeper pockets would just hoard all the talent. People who complain constantly about Les don't really understand what a tough business this is. If I wanted fair-weather fans, I'd move to Lincoln, Nebraska. I know Cornhusker fans that give up on the entire season after a close win, let alone a loss.
24M for four years? I don't know Gater, it sounds very reasonable to me. Wasn't the general consensus that Posey's worth the MLE? This is exactly the MLE, just with maximum raises each year. he starts off at 4.9M and ends up around 7M. I think that, if he stays with us the whole time, he'll easily be worth 7M in his final year. besides, you should never worry abotu the final year, because players in their final years are easily moveable and are simply desirable. I understand everyone's concern. But right now, I think Posey is a good deal at the MLE. We're not going to sign someone as good as him that brings the same things to the table, for less than that. He's a piece of the puzzle. He's what this team needs. Right now, I think he's worth the money, what we should be worrying abotu is which big contract to ditch, not whether or not to add a reasonably priced player.
JPo is worth the MLE, IMO. JPo will improve either the Rox or the Grizz. The Rox need to be better. The Rox cannot 'afford' for any of the other bottom feeding play off contenders getting better. Therefore, JPo, the Rocket, is twice better than Posey the Presleyite.
It is not brain ssurgery if one asks for better clarification and support for a claim or figure. No one here on this board knows entirely how it works (NBA "money" system). I have an idea but I can tell you first that I am not a capologist. Common sense tells us that is better to support you figures with sources than not. If you can provide sources (in case of figures) or coney you point clearly then don't waste your time.
I believe we are still on the hook for Matt Maloney's contract, even though he plays for Atlanta, if he still plays. They keep talking about that on 610. I can't find any evidence of it, so I have no idea how that whole situation works out.
bejezuz, yeah, the returned money is not necessarily an overall good thing...it is just better than paying. The tax triggered because the league had a down year on BRI. When revenues go down, that's never good. The player escrow is there as a cushion, to keep salaries/benefit within a given % of BRI, by returning 10% of the players salaries to the owners should revenue go down. so, there are two basic ways the tax triggers: 1. revenue actually goes down like last year, or 2. normal salaries growth starts exceeding normal revenue growth. (btw: you can track BRI growth by looking at the cap increases each year.) #1 is what happened last year. #2 hasn't happened, yet. #1 is bad for all owners because that means they get a smaller revenue-sharing check. #2 is a scenario where the Clipper argument makes since, where the owner makes more money by keeping salaries low. Sane, Consider that CD and JVG might have the ultimate priority of added two veterans to this team. They can do that by using the full MLE. Or they can sign Pike and Posey. The later is Pike's salary higher than the former.
I thought Maloney's contract came off the cap next July 1st. Can anyone confirm whether this is true or not?
I found this article: http://www.forbes.com/home/free_forbes/2003/0217/072tab.html -----Value----- Rank Team --- Curr val* Annual change** Income***($mil) 1 LOS ANGELES LAKERS $426 14% $44.1 2 NEW YORK KNICKS 398 6 25.1 3 CHICAGO BULLS 323 23 39.1 4 DALLAS MAVERICKS 304 NA 3.2 5 PHILADELPHIA 76ERS 298 16 18.1 6 WASHINGTON WIZARDS 278 15 12.7 7 BOSTON CELTICS 274 NA 17.4 8 PHOENIX SUNS 272 13 18.5 9 PORTLAND TRAIL BLAZERS 270 10 -22.8 10 SACRAMENTO KINGS 259 14 13.5 11 DETROIT PISTONS 258 13 12.9 12 HOUSTON ROCKETS 255 13 6.7 13 MIAMI HEAT 250 20 8.1 14 INDIANA PACERS 246 18 3.1 15 SAN ANTONIO SPURS 242 14 8.3 16 UTAH JAZZ 226 14 1.9 17 CLEVELAND CAVALIERS 222 14 5.9 18 NEW JERSEY NETS 218 10 4.5 19 TORONTO RAPTORS 217 15 4.5 20 MINNESOTA TIMBERWOLVES 213 13 8.8 21 DENVER NUGGETS 209 NA -5.0 22 SEATTLE SUPERSONICS 207 NA 6.3 23 ATLANTA HAWKS 206 NA 4.2 24 LOS ANGELES CLIPPERS 205 14 16.3 25 MEMPHIS GRIZZLIES 198 NA 0.6 26 ORLANDO MAGIC 197 8 8.2 27 GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS 176 6 -0.6 28 NEW ORLEANS HORNETS 172 13 -8.3 29 MILWAUKEE BUCKS 168 14 -8.5 LEAGUE AVERAGE 248 13 8.5 *Value of team based on current arena deal (unless new arena is pending) without deduction for debt (other than arena debt). **Current team value compared with latest transaction price. ***Earnings before interest, taxes and depreciation, 2001-02 season. NA: Not applicable; current ownership in place less than three years.
Good point HP. Now that I think about it, maybe we're better off with 2 veteran signigns than Posey? There's definitely a lot to consider, and I'm definitely more ok with the Rockets waiting so long to make their decision. If we can land a Mark jackson and a Bryon Russell, who says we're worse than last year? Besides, we already got Pike, and for all we know, he may impact our team positively more than Posey did. We weren't all that bad before the Posey trade, and KT wasn't playing all that much. Till when do the Rockets have till they match the offer? It's definitely been over a week since Posey signed, right? Edit: It's been just 5 days. So we have 10 more to go. I expect them to wait the whole 10 days, unless they make a deal or realize they need to sign someone soon.
especially if we insist on one of the vets being a guard with playmaking skills rather than finisher skills like Posey. so, basically, maybe Posey priced himself out of our needs for 2 Vets, one of which must be a playmaker guard.
Where's the logic in letting a young starting caliber SF that can grow with the rest of the team, and some day contend for the title with Steve and Yao go away? For the sole purpose of signing two hired guns that are going to leave the team in a couple of years anyway? I'm sorry, but that doesn't make any sense. Are we 2 veterans apart from being contenders? Maybe if they were Payton and Malone, but since they are likely to be Mark Jackson, Kenny Anderson, Kendall Gill or something like that, there is no point.
Wasn't Posey himself the hired gun u talked about? For that matter, everyone is a hired gun. If you have money u can hire just about any player in the NBA once they become FA.
I don't know how I managed to live this long without such a brilliant, enlightnening and marvelous definition of what is exactly a hired gun. Your thinking has clearly humbled me. I shall now depart to the woods and seek a new meaning for my life, now forever shattered by such a shocking revelation. Hired gun! Never have I been so amazed!
Thanos, don't get me wrong, I'd sign Posey as well as use the full MLE on 2 vets. I'm just trying to say that the argument of not signing Posey to an MLE payscale due to tax worries is bogus if we end up using the whole MLE by the end of the season, anyhow. As far as being contenders go, that is not really fixable with any role players as much as it is in the natural growth of Yao, SF, Griffin, our overall team defense, and our fastbreaking ability.
Great points hp, couldn't agree more. I'm just saying that if it comes down to signing two vets for cheap or keeping a long-term solution, it's a no-brainer. I really can't believe that the Rockets brass would prefer the former over the latter. They can't be THAT dumb, even though they've made some questionable decisions in the past.
I completely agree. I like Pike but he will be 32/33 next year. Two vets at 3 mil year (say Pike and J Jackson), even if they make us better than one Posey for the next 3 years, hurt us in year 4-5-6. Posey or no Posey--with SF & Yao maxed it isn't like we were going to be under the cap big by taking shorter contracts of older vets. All 2 older vets with three year deals gets us is 1st or 2nd round playoff exits, worse draft picks along the way, and the loss of a younger/prime aged role player who could peak 4 years down the line with Yao/SF. Further, if Posey regresses he is off the books after those 4 years, not that big of risk. It seems to me Posey should be in the LT future. Now if we could get S Jack for a couple mil less I can see the short term (and $) gain with about similar long term expectations--but outside of that I think we should match Posey. Also, CD in his interview 2 days ago regarding the Pike siging said 1) it has no bearing on what they do with Posey, & 2) they had not made up their mind with Posey. So people should stop acting like the decision has been made. They A) very well could know they are going to match but stringing Memphis along thinking they are going to get him (and feeding media outlets), B) maybe really are not sure and exploring options like S Jack and will end up matching Posey assuming nothing else comparable comes up, or C) just feel whatever Memphis offered is too much under any circumstances. I can't think that it is all luxury cap--we could have always matched Posey, not signed Pike, and dumped salary via Cato, Rice or Mot (taken 15% less back) if the around 2 million $ next year (diff between Pike and Posey) was the sticking point. BTW--can anyone in the know confirm (not media outlets but team officials, agents or the league) the actual Memphis contract is 4 years/24 mil, I thought 4.9 with 10% escalation is the max MLE contract (around 22.6 mil over 4 years).
I THINK it's 12.5% escalation. Thanos, Here's what's happening. The Rockets can sign a few veterans to fill out the roster. If they offer a contract to Posey, they will simply not have enough money to fill out the roster without passing the luxury tax threshold. So what they're trying to do (assumption) is find a way to re-sign Posey, and fill out the roster (i.e. trades). If they find no available trades, they will definitely go for signing afew vets and go to war.
According to Larry Coon/CBA... http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#22 ..only Larry Birds and Early Birds can have 12.5 increases, all other are 10%. 4,917,000 is the MLE this year. With 10% increases that is 22,819,797 with 12.5 increases is 23,672,666. Thus I think the $24 mil figure is wrong even with rounding and reflects someone in the media calculating the contract incorrectly and this has just spread. Could be wrong or missing some bonuses I am not privy too--but that is what I think. Yearly contracts should be as follows: 4,917,000 5,408,700 5,949,570 6,544,527
I think you're right Desert Scar. I have to say something though. Looking at those numbers, I really REALLY hope we math the offer. Those figures are a bargain for Posey. James Posey is a brilliant role player, and that is role player money. We CANNOT pass up on this opportunity. Hell, the Grizzlies did us a favour. If these are the numbers we're CONSIDERING, then what were we planning on offering and did we seriously think he'd take it? I realize we'll have difficulty filling out the roster, but I think we can make a trade to acquire a few more players. It really doesn't matter who they are, they should just be able to play the 3 as well as Rice (almost ANY 3 in the league). I'm suddenly very optimistic about our chances of matching this offer.
Again I don't doubt that Posey can play. It's the money. Besides Hawk , TMo, don't u think any of these would be a better bargain: Donnel Harvey, Calbert Cheaney, Rasual Butler, Lee Nailon, Darwin Ham.
