If you get a chance to get bosh without giving up the farm, you do it. I don't have to show last 5 game statlines or anything like that. Bosh is the clear cut better and younger player. I would argue bosh is a better player than yao. I would trade yao for bosh in a heartbeat.
Plain and simple: if the Raptors traded Bosh to us STRAIGHT UP (I know it won't work on the salary cap but this is hypothetically speaking) to us for Scola, we'd be getting the better end of the deal. Bosh's game is superior to Scola's, it's as simple as that. I love Scola, and have so much respect for him, but I gotta be honest. A Bosh/Yao frontcourt is better than a Scola/Yao frontcourt.
Wow. Maybe you should consider watching games instead of looking at stats. We are talking about a guy who was before he went down was the best center in the game (basing this on both ends of the floor, the complete post game, the ability to alter shots, the freethrow shooting). He is a winner (moreso than Bosh anyways), a true defensive anchor (every team he has ever been on has been amongst the best defensively), and calm down the stretch (especially at the line). You can argue it, I don't think you have much of a case (except injuries, which can't prove or disprove who is a better player). It is a no-brainer who the better player is between Yao and Bosh. No knock on Bosh, he just is not on that level.
I doubt if Bosh and Yao complements each other's game. Neither of them seems to be the kind of hard-nosed, fighting for every rebound, garbage collecting (??) type player. Both excellent scorers but this front court seems relatively 'soft' to me. I think a Scola/Yao or Scola/Bosh front court is more promising than a Bosh/Yao front court, esp. under Adelman system. Just my opinion.
Why do you like overpaid scrubs? I'd take Bosh only. Yao for Bosh straight up would do wonder to this team.
Again...who was on those Toronto teams again? Go back and look.... Also thoes years Bosh was like 21 or 22....so yeah....
Yeaaaaahhhh, we would be the Toronto Raptors of the West!! It would do wonder, it would make anybody with a brain wonder wtf are we doing. Overpaid scrubs? WOW. Calderon is a solid PG and Turkoglu is a pretty good scorer. Now if we got a nice PG like Calderon along with a good scorer like Turkoglu (perhaps giving up Ariza and Brooks), then we would have a nice roster- PG: Calderon/Lowry SG: Martin/Budinger SF: Battier/Turkoglu PF: Scola/Hill C: Bosh/Hayes That starting lineup would be good, that second unit would be great. Team would probably be pretty good.
The Luis Scola situation is truly... a dilemma. This is a long read but take a deep breath and here goes. The most important thing to look at when debating between Scola and Bosh is: How difficult it is to find a player of that certain caliber. Scola is a top 10 PF in the nba. He is a winner on every level and his workman like attitude + hustle defines the Rockets. He simply makes winning plays whether it be grabbing key rebounds, making clutch shots, or gaining an extra possession on a loose ball situation. Scola is definitely not a 'soft' player, and unlike Ariza, he's proven that he can be a situational go-to type of guy and still be productive. Bosh is a top 10 player in the nba and is still improving. He is the unequivocal #1 guy on 20+ teams (one of them being ours) and has the ability to be the guy that teams have to game-plan for. He is not (yet) a top 5 dominant player which is why Toronto is not doing so well (that and the Raps play HORRIBLE defense). You may recall that even Kobe had mediocre teams without the proper supporting cast. Look at what happened to Garnett when he moved from a one-man subpar team to a winning culture with a couple veterans and solid role players. THIS is the simple truth about winning a championship in the nba: Anytime you can get a player that is top 5 caliber, you do it. If your best player is only top 10 caliber, then you have to surround them with a VERY good cast of other players (with us it would be Yao-top 20, Martin top 40). With that being said, I feel like in looking at the composition of our team and the upgrades that need to be made, the starting PF position manned by Scola is not the #1 issue that needs to be addressed. In my opinion, the difference between Scola and Bosh is less than the other respective positions. To illustrate the point, Scola is a top 10 PF and Bosh is top 3PF so the difference is there but not significant enough to win 15 more games. Yao is a top 2 center so we really can't upgrade there. Martin, as Morey stated, is already a "championship caliber starting SG". As for Ariza/Battier, we need one of the two to be the glue guy, and Ariza has already proven that he can be that guy during the Laker's run last year. That leaves us with Brooks. Brooks is not a top 10 pg (although on offense he is already there). Due to his diminutive stature, he will never be one because he can get abused on defense by stronger guards, and on offense by physical defenses. If the Rockets need to upgrade a position, it is the PG spot. Someone already mentioned that the Rockets need a reliable play maker at the end of games. That is our greatest need. Also, I believe that our defensive decline can be attributed to 3 things. The main and obvious is that we don't have a shot blocking/intimidating presence in the middle. Yao's return and drafting a shot blocking big will address that. The second is that we have a lot of new guys that haven't completely honed into the Rockets team defense. That can be improved over the summer. The third and incorrigible issue is that our starting perimeter defense is very weak. Both Brooks and Martin are subpar defenders for their position (despite being willing defenders). Martin at least has the tools to be a better defender and most of his tendencies can be corrected with a strong system and coach. Worst case scenario you have Ariza who can take the better of the two wings. Ariza however cannot cover for Brooks. This is not a knock on Brooks because the effort is there but his physical limitation prevents him from being a consistently good defender. His deficiencies are magnified because the guy he has to guard is the primary ball handler in most situations. So in summary, this is my conclusion. If we can upgrade the PG spot during this summer, that is our first priority. Brooks is already good (not great) so as Morey said of this team, it's getting harder to upgrade at each position. If you can get a top 7 PG (Paul, Williams, Billups, Nash etc) you absolutely do it without any reservations. I mentioned the names above to make a point. I have no idea how the Rockets would ever attain any of the players but then again, I'm not Morey. Since top flight PG are not available, you then go to the 2nd option which is more realistic in that you would go after Bosh. This is not about Scola (I heart this guy's game and hope he stays a Rocket for life) but more about getting a premier top 10 player in his prime. Thanks for reading and I hope this helps clear the dilemma.
For those who want trade Yao for Bosh, you have to realize that no team would trade for him before he comes back to the court. Now, nobody is sure whether Yao can come back to play again. So, if you want to trade him, you have to wait till next year's trade deadline. By then, Bosh will sign with another team already.
well my stats show that for 100% of the games after the trade that scola is averaging the numbers in my sig. and if you want me to consult a book then you should consult scola's per 36 numbers for this year. his per 36 numbers aren't too far off from what he has been doing since landry left. if you are curious his per 36 numbers during the 13 game stretch aren't too far off from his per 36 this year. further you are also forgetting that during this period since the trade there was a game where scola only played 15 min and got 0 points on 0/5 shooting and 3 boards. so it's not like has been playing out of his mind every game. here are the per 36 numbers since the trade 20.6 ppg 11.9 rpg 3.1 Orpg 2.5 apg 3.2 to/g .82 spg .33 bpg the scoring has been on 8.3/15 FGM/FGA and 3.9/4.7 FTA/FTM here are scola's per 36 for the year 18 ppg 10.3 rpg 2.5 Orpg 2.5 apg 2.4 to/g .8 spg .4 bpg the scoring has been on 7.6/14.6 FGM/FGA and 2.7/3.5 FTA/FTM half of the points per 36 increase has come from him getting to the line more and the other half has come from his shooting being hot. finally, he is rebounding a little better than normal for this period, but it's not as if he is doing anything absurd by averaging 1.6 more rebounds per 36 over 13 games. so while i'm consulting that book you can consult scola's numbers. the post trade period is much closer to reality than you might think. :grin:
Yao sells tickets and builds fanbases. If Houston offered Yao for Bosh straight up, Toronto would definitely jump (any GM in that situation would. The NBA is about making money and Yao can make you tons of it. Given the fact that he has 1 year left on his contract and can be traded for a guy you might lose for nothing). I just don't want Houston to make the downgrade.
I like where your heart is, but we'll have to agree to disagree. That's good research. I still think you should think about production per minute in regards to contracts. Also, I would consider what Bosh's post game, better rebounding and blocked shots would do for the surrounding players.
All this will depend on whether Yao can be back to the court. If he were unable to play anymore, he wouldn't help to sell tickets. The raptors wouldn't jump for nothing. And, as you said, he has only one year contract left. Even he can play, he may walk a season later after the raptors trade for him. The raptors wouldn't trade Bosh just for Yao's one year service.
Toronto would do Bosh for Yao. They'd fill up the arena for the first time since the good old days of Carter & company with its 30% Asian population (11% Chinese) and probably get a good deal of fans from Vancouver as well. Yao + Turkoglu + Calderon gives them a good base. Adding Yao to the team they have now is still a playoff team and actually matches up better against Orlando and who they might well meet in the first round
You guys keep ignoring the fact that Yao comes back from a serious surgey. Nobody knows whether he will be able to play the bball. And, He has only one year contract left. But, I am sure the raptors and other teams' GMs won't ignore those facts. If you want to trade Yao, you have to wait and see how he will play next season.
Why are you comparing Bosh with a player who doesn't exist anymore? Yao would have been better than Bosh when he was still healthy, but that's not the case at all. It's not 2004, its 2010 and Yao Ming will already be 30 next year and he has been injured in 4 of the last 5 years. No offense but you're the one who should watch games instead of idealizing Yao Ming. There is no way no how Yao Ming is better than Chris Bosh, if getting him means trading Yao then you do it no questions asked from a purely basketball standpoint. I don't even get your "winning" comment. Bosh has an Olympic gold medal, while all Yao has are some trophies in the league where guys like Bonzi Wells go off for 50.
Fine ASSUME since we're talking about value (since the idea of Les trading Yao is stupid anyways). Say Yao comes back and is heathy by the playoffs. Yao and Bosh have similar lifetime stats Yao 19.7ppg 9.9rpg 1.9bpg Bosh 20.1ppg 9.4rpg 1.19bpg except Yao is a much better FT shooter and a significantly more efficient scorer. and presents definite matchup problems and anchors the defense better than Bosh. and would be an order of magnitude (10x) or greater better marketing tool across Canada among the 25-30% Asians on that country. You think Toronto does or does not do a trade?
