If Lin was even the number 2 option on any team, is there even a doubt now he would be putting up All Star numbers?
He's already putting up near all-star numbers so far in a diminished 6th man role. Outplaying the likes of anointed future star Damian Lillard so far. Lillard is 19.6 and 5.6 on over 15 FGA per game shooting a terrible 38% FG. Lin is 18.4 and 4.7 on 11 FGA shooting 53% FG. Lillard also has a higher usage as well. Give Lin 15 FGA and higher usage and he's probably averaging 23 and 6.
No he isn't; not in the West anyway. The PG position is the most stacked that it's ever been and I have a problem with his assist/to ratio. His turnovers should not be that high considering his low usage. It's kinda worrisome that it's even worse than during 'Linsanity' when I could sorta excuse it because he was carrying that team and had a high usage. But now? smh.
umm why is this even a thread? This season, lowry and dragic aren't even in Lin's galaxy smh this is even a dumber thread than Harden v Lin or Lin v Bev
Actually I think the distribution of his minutes is more the problem than anything. McHale literally rode him into the ground the first 2 games, especially in Philly. And given the small number of games, an 8 TO game swings the needle wildly. He had only 2 TO's in New York, which I *hope* will be more representative of his actual turnover rate as we move forward.
Well this was started last year when this was more of a question. I think Lin is the most talented player out of the group, but Gogi and Lowry are not scrubs, and this question is not as clear cut as you make it sound at this point. For one, neither of them have ball handling/TO issues that Lin does. Both are better defenders (esp Lowry). Where Lin has them beat right now is offensive creativity, and I think the gap between Lin and Lowry/Gogi is actually pretty large here. Lin is the better shooter, playmaker, and just generally has far more tools in his offensive arsenal. Lowry did have dramatic improvement from the 3 point line but he is still pretty consistently a 40% fg type guy. Neither of them have the driving ability of Lin, and Lin is probably stronger than both (I think that this will probably be debated, but Lin is really strong for a pg). It was so weird that after the Gogi/Lowry controversy we ended up getting rid of both... but looking back I'm happy with where we are on this. Bev has the potential to be pretty close to Lowry (and bev's agility makes his defense even scarier than Lowry IMO).
Lin's a better defender than Dragic. Lowry was a better defender in his prime but he's fallen off lately.
10 games is a small sample size. Look at Lowry's first 13 games from 2012 in Toronto Per36: 20.6ppg; 6.4 rpg; 6.8 apg; 1.8 spg The point is this: - Lin, Dragic and Lowry are all capable of very high levels of play for stretches. - On average, they're all solid starters (or top-notch 6th men, which Lin is probably better suited for than the other two) - They've all had down stretches - whether it's due to situation or whatever...it just so happens that Lowry and Dragic are in one now (Lowry is playing with 2 of the biggest chuckers in the league, and doesn't want to be in TOR; Dragic is being forced to play out of position at SG), while Lin is in his hot streak (keep in mind early last year Lin was in a down period while Lowry/Dragic were playing well). - Don't be prisoners of the moment.
I pretty much agree with everything you said here. Also, most people don't realize that point guard is almost entirely an offensive position. The fact is, most point guards can't defend each other except a handful of guys and those guys lack offensive skill. Rose, parker, westbrook etc cannot stay in front of each other. Where defense matters most is on the wings and especially rim protection from the center and PF. All you can really ask of your pg on defense is try your best to funnel them into spots where they are least productive and use the bigs to deter them from the rim. If Lin ends the season with something close to what he is averaging now, he'll be a top 8-10 pg
I really disagree with this. Dragic has more lateral quickness than Lin and is better staying in front of his man. They share an affinity for gambling (this is debatably a weakness, not sure how the numbers pan out). Dragic is more consistent and better able to adapt to different defensive sets. This might be because Dragic exerts less energy on the offensive side, but Dragic is embarassed less often. I can't comment on Lowry's drop off, but Lowry was a really intelligent and suffocating defender. I don't think his defense every relied disproportionately on athleticism so I'd be surprised if he suddenly lost this ability.
Lowry doesn't want to be anywhere. First he didn't want to be in MEM, then HOU, now Toronto. Also Lowry loved the Gay signing and him and Rudy are best friends. I don't feel sorry for Kyle one bit. And this is coming from someone who is Canadian and follows the Raptors avidly.Lin is better than the two of them. Goran was always overrated on this board and Bledsoe is balling right now. Lowr is the 2nd best out of the bunch. Last year I said Lowry was the best player of the 3 but right now I am thinking that Lin & Kyle are at a tie and Lin will surpass Kyle by the end of this season.
Yeah, Lowry was always a headache and a really tough guy to fit into any team. My memories of Lowry only make me appreciate bev/lin more.
Think part of that might be that Dragic is now in his 10th career as a basketball pro and 5th year in the NBA and we're only entering Lin's 4th as a pro and only starting his 2nd full season as a player getting regular minutes? I recently caught the Linsanity documentary and one of the most interesting things I noted was Lin commenting during his time at GSW... he said that at the time, he wasn't even getting floor time during practices. All the time went to Steph Curry and Monte Ellis. Lin was literally a back up to the players at the practice. IE, he got no development time off the court, and minimal minutes on the court. It was so bad that during the lockout season he was praying that the NBA lockout would last longer so that he would have more time to work on his game since he wasn't getting the opportunity in practice. That said, I'd still consider them similarly impactful players. However, I still put the ceiling on Lin to be higher since Lin has more things he can work on to improve. Dragic is pretty much mostly what he's going to be barring some huge leaps in skillset.
And in 8 of those 12 games, Lowry shot 40% or less. This season he is again shooting less than 40% from the field. His career fg% is 41.6. Some people are fascinated by this guy but he is just mediocre.
True Shooting %: Lin: .549% Lowry: .544% Dragic: .543% Career WS/48: Lowry: .122 Lin: .112 Dragic: .092 USG% Lowry: 19.2 Dragic: 21.6 Lin: 22.2 TO% Lowry: 16.3% Dragic: 18.2% Lin: 19.7% Lowry, if you're an objective observer, is the lowest usage, best 2-way, stat-sheet filler of the three. The problem is that he's clearly immature and goes through motivation problems.
And from a business perspective, Lin prints money for Les because of his Asian heritage. Lowry does not.
<table width='1000' class='inner1'> <tr bgcolor="#CCCCCC"> <td>#</td><td>Player</td><td>Team</td> <td title='Games Played'><a href='http://ns.twhappy.com/?select=14,compare,compare,pg,gp,70_248_413' target='_blank'>G</a></td> <td title='Minutes Per Game'><a href='http://ns.twhappy.com/?select=14,compare,compare,pg,mpg,70_248_413' target='_blank'>MPG</a></td> <td title='Field Goal Percentage'><a href='http://ns.twhappy.com/?select=14,compare,compare,pg,fg,70_248_413' target='_blank'>FG%</a></td> <td title='3 Points Field Goal Percentage'><a href='http://ns.twhappy.com/?select=14,compare,compare,pg,f3p,70_248_413' target='_blank'>3P%</a></td> <td title='Free Throw Percentage'><a href='http://ns.twhappy.com/?select=14,compare,compare,pg,ft,70_248_413' target='_blank'>FT%</a></td> <td title='Offensive Rebounds'><a href='http://ns.twhappy.com/?select=14,compare,compare,pg,off,70_248_413' target='_blank'>OFF</a></td> <td title='Defensive Rebounds'><a href='http://ns.twhappy.com/?select=14,compare,compare,pg,def,70_248_413' target='_blank'>DEF</a></td> <td title='Rebounds'><a href='http://ns.twhappy.com/?select=14,compare,compare,pg,rpg,70_248_413' target='_blank'>RPG</a></td> <td title='Assists'><a href='http://ns.twhappy.com/?select=14,compare,compare,pg,apg,70_248_413' target='_blank'>APG</a></td> <td title='Steals'><a href='http://ns.twhappy.com/?select=14,compare,compare,pg,spg,70_248_413' target='_blank'>SPG</a></td> <td title='Blocks'><a href='http://ns.twhappy.com/?select=14,compare,compare,pg,bpg,70_248_413' target='_blank'>BPG</a></td> <td title='Turnovers'><a href='http://ns.twhappy.com/?select=14,compare,compare,pg,turnover,70_248_413' target='_blank'>TO</a></td> <td title='Personal Fouls'><a href='http://ns.twhappy.com/?select=14,compare,compare,pg,pf,70_248_413' target='_blank'>PF</a></td> <td title='Efficiency Rating: (PTS + REB + AST + STL + BLK − ((FGA − FGM) + (FTA − FTM) + TO))'><a href='http://ns.twhappy.com/?select=14,compare,compare,pg,eff,70_248_413' target='_blank'>EFF</a></td> <td title='Points'><a href='http://ns.twhappy.com/?select=14,compare,compare,pg,ppg,70_248_413' target='_blank'>PPG</a></td></tr><tr onMouseOver="this.style.backgroundColor='#CECECE';" onMouseOut="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFFFF';"><td>1</td><td><a href='http://ns.twhappy.com/?select=14,player,248' target='_blank'>Jeremy Lin</a></td><td><a href='http://ns.twhappy.com/?select=14,team,17' target='_blank'>HOU</a></td><td>11</td><td>33.8</td><td>52.8</td><td>44.4</td><td>79.4</td><td>0.2</td><td>2.6</td><td>2.8</td><td>4.9</td><td>1.4</td><td>0.5</td><td>3.5</td><td>2.6</td><td>17.73</td><td>18.2</td></tr><tr onMouseOver="this.style.backgroundColor='#CECECE';" onMouseOut="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFFFF';"><td>2</td><td><a href='http://ns.twhappy.com/?select=14,player,413' target='_blank'>Goran Dragic</a></td><td><a href='http://ns.twhappy.com/?select=14,team,29' target='_blank'>PHX</a></td><td>6</td><td>31.0</td><td>44.6</td><td>22.2</td><td>76.2</td><td>0.2</td><td>2.2</td><td>2.3</td><td>5.0</td><td>0.8</td><td>0.2</td><td>2.2</td><td>1.7</td><td>12.83</td><td>14.3</td></tr><tr onMouseOver="this.style.backgroundColor='#CECECE';" onMouseOut="this.style.backgroundColor='#FFFFFF';"><td>3</td><td><a href='http://ns.twhappy.com/?select=14,player,70' target='_blank'>Kyle Lowry</a></td><td><a href='http://ns.twhappy.com/?select=14,team,5' target='_blank'>TOR</a></td><td>10</td><td>34.3</td><td>39.8</td><td>38.2</td><td>65.7</td><td>1.1</td><td>2.4</td><td>3.5</td><td>5.5</td><td>1.3</td><td>0.1</td><td>1.7</td><td>3.1</td><td>13.90</td><td>12.6</td></tr></table>
You are using career numbers ? Significant difference between Lowry and Lin is that Lin is trending upwards, already being two years younger than Lowry. If Lowry keeps on going the direction he is, he will not get a good contract.
