Call me old school but i certainly miss NBA games that had dominate low post play. The days of Olajuwon and Shaq going at each other back and forth on every play. The perimeter players spreading the floor just waiting for that double team so they can hit the wide open 3. I can't name 5 players in the league that have a legit low post game. It is ridiculous how many great players there are yet none of them can get on the low block and go to work. It isn't as if the game is evolved so much that low post play isn't necessary. I was listening to jalen rose and he made some great points. Nowadays they can put guys like lebron james on chandler because everyone knows chandler cannot expose james. How many times do you see undersized players on the opposing teams big men and yet they don't take advantage because the bigs have no skills on the block. Imagine if Dwight Howard had a consistent low post game that he could go to with his athleticism and power. He would put Shaq type numbers but without the low post game he is almost a liability down the stretch because he isn't trustworthy on the offensive side of the court. In any case i just decided to post this because i miss the great low post play of the NBA I grew up watching. I wish these young high school coaches would teach these bigs to go on the block and work on the craft instead of attempting to act like guards and dribble from the top of the circle. I hope that it isn't a lost art and sooner rather than later we see some bigs that can play with their back to the basket.
Rules don't favor low post play. It's as simple as that. If we had reffing/rules of the 90s, Yao could've possibly had a couple of MVP seasons during his career.
Thread would be incomplete without this - <iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/K7tPZ-KljR0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Rules favour atheltic guards and fast offenses, not big men. That's, I think, the reason there seems to be a glut of skilled point guards in the league.
I understand that rules might favor athletic point guards but that does not negate the fact that bigs that have a low post game would still be a great asset on any team. Like I mentioned in the original thread imagine a guy like howard with a consistent low post game. You don't think that is a big deal because of the rules? I think we are quick to throw out the "new rules" card but in reality we just don't have any players that can play consistently on the low block.
VGB Thanks for the video. Talk about the good old days. Amazing footwork. I had forgotten how effective he was away from the basket. He could have played small forward, no problem.
Zach was great last season pre-injury. Haven't seen that post-up game from him post-injury. Jefferson is good, but for some reason he doesn't draw shooting fouls. He should be going to the FT line a ton. He doesn't. Because he doesn't initiate enough contact and take advantage of defenders reaching and out of position. That's part of being a great post-up player. Dirk has an excellent post game. Most casual fans don't realize it. But over 50% of his shots come from back-to-the-basket post-ups. He turns and shoots that iron leg fadeaway a lot and if the defense overplays that, he kicks out, and either reposts for the dribble drive or runs to the rim on the give and go. He's a very good post-up player. Kobe has a great post-up game as well. It's probably where he is most effective, posting up free throw line extended receiving the ball back-to-the-basket with the triple threat at his disposal. Deadly stuff right there, deadly. Lamarcus has a nice post-up turnaround jumper. If he develops other moves off that jumper being overplayed, he could turn into a total juggernaut. He needs to take his post game to the next level. And he's got the talent and work ethic to do it. DWade is great at attacking from the post-up, much better than his teammate, Lebron. That's sad to say. Lebron should be the league's worst nightmare posting up. He ain't. Luis Scola is one of the best post-up threats in the NBA, at a flat-footed non-athletic 6'9". But the league has caught on to his constant spinning. He needs spacing and to cut down on his moves and just take the shot over the defense while they are waiting for another spin and scoop. Gotta break up the monotony. Utah's Millsap is an underrated post-up player. Andrew Bynum should be a monster post-up player but he's too slow. Once he gets his move going and can uncoil his length, he's virtually unstoppable. But he's too slow getting his move started and he doesn't have enough counter moves. Dwight is a decent post-up threat, only because his athleticism is off the charts. But he doesn't stay on the balls of his feet and makes a lot of moves off his heels. He could be so much better if he was humble enough to be coached and he had some top-notch big men coaches like CD, Hakeem, and McHale. Not to mention if he could simply shoot his freebies at 75%. He could be soooooo much better. Elton Brand is still very good in the post up because of his size and strength, and soft hands that allow a lot of his little turnaround jumpers to find their way home. Tim Duncan has been a very good post-up player for his career. Him and Brand are the best of the old timer bigs still playing. Watching Andre Miller last night. Him and Jamal Tinsley are great post-up point guards, and I mean great. Hakeem Olajuwon and Kevin McHale are the two greatest post-up players to ever play the game. The plethora and diversity of their post-up moves was ridiculous and mesmorizing for any single defender. They could not be stopped without a double or triple team.
Oh, it's more than the rules. The rise of the Chris Webber and european big men style definitely played an impact, and it seems more and more HS and college coaches train their big men to play like guards. I'm probably not the bext example since I didn't play competitively (I suck at basketball) but in middle school, no one knew how to operate in the low post or box out. Everyone played face-up or on the perimeter. Even in HS I see players do the same thing. But, I think the rules are a reason too. You can't handcheck, you can't keep your back to the basket, you get called for a foul unless the block is all ball.
Lebron is a nightmare in the post. http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/34312887 Meanwhile, Spoelstra is growing a little fatigued of answering questions about James’ post game. He knows quite well that James posted up on seven percent of his offensive plays last season and now it is more than 15 percent. He knows that James is shooting 65 percent on those post plays, the best in the NBA so far. He also knows has that James averages 1.219 points per play from the post, another in-depth stat that Spoelstra specializes in. Those stats and the ones fans are much more familiar with – like James’ 30.1 point scoring average and his 60 percent shooting percentage – say the obvious: keep doing it. They are a major reason the Heat are 8-1 and looking like a juggernaut offensive team. Still the James in the post talk is what the coach calls “a storyline,” an easy idea for the media to ask and write about. In a new city, the questions about it are coming and Spoelstra answers them without much feeling behind it. “It’s making us much more dynamic and efficient,” Spoelstra said. “We’re able to do it in different ways. Not just the post. People want to compartmentalize what we’re doing. There’s actually been a lot of tweaks.” http://outsidethearc.com/2011/12/26...ebron-james-has-developed-an-elite-post-game/ Another link above, just more to prove that Lebron has a post up game that is very efficient. It didn't have it when he came in the league, but its there now.
A big cause of the lack of elite low post players since Shaq is that so many of the most promising candidates either never panned out or are lost to injuries. Think about some of the high picks who are supposed to become low post players in the last dozen years: Eddy Curry ate himself out of the league, Yao Ming was successful until injuries ended his career, Adrew Bogut has struggled with injuries, Greg Oden's career hardly began before injuries hit. A good low post player can still be effective, but you gotta keep these 7 foot monster on the court.
That story was written early and his post game usage deteriorated throughout the season. You simply can't be a good post player if 95% of your touches are face up and only 5% are post up. Just another of the stupid ways that Miami plays.
He can easily be a good post player even if the usage isn't high (5% so you say). In that 5% if he posts up well and has good moves, then he simply can be a good post player. Kobe is a good post up player, but does he utilize that move a lot?
