so you oppose homosexuality based on Catholic dogma yet freely admit to enjoying masturbation? The Persona Humana approved by: Pope Paul VI date: 12/29/75 section: IX The traditional Catholic doctrine that masturbation constitutes a grave moral disorder is often called into doubt or expressly denied today. It is said that psychology and sociology show that it is a normal phenomenon of sexual development, especially among the young. It is stated that there is real and serious fault only in the measure that the subject deliberately indulges in solitary pleasure closed in on self ("ipsation"), because in this case the act would indeed be radically opposed to the loving communion between persons of different sex which some hold is what is principally sought in the use of the sexual faculty. This opinion is contradictory to the teaching and pastoral practice of the Catholic Church. Whatever the force of certain arguments of a biological and philosophical nature, which have sometimes been used by theologians, in fact both the Magisterium of the Church--in the course of a constant tradition-- and the moral sense of the faithful have declared without hesitation that masturbation is an intrinsically and seriously disordered act. The main reason is that, whatever the motive for acting this way, the deliberate use of the sexual faculty outside normal conjugal relations essentially contradicts the finality of the faculty. For it lacks the sexual relationship called for by the moral order, namely the relationship which realizes "the full sense of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love."[20] All deliberate exercise of sexuality must be reserved to this regular relationship. Even if it cannot be proved that Scripture condemns this sin by name, the tradition of the Church has rightly understood it to be condemned in the New Testament when the latter speaks of "impurity," "unchasteness" and other vices contrary to chastity and continence. Sociological surveys are able to show the frequency of this disorder according to the places, populations or circumstances studied. In this way facts are discovered, but facts do not constitute a criterion for judging the moral value of human acts.[21] The frequency of the phenomenon in question is certainly to be linked with man's innate weakness following original sin; but it is also to be linked with the loss of a sense of God, with the corruption of morals engendered by the commercialization of vice, with the unrestrained licentiousness of so many public entertainments and publications, as well as with the neglect of modesty, which is the guardian of chastity. On the subject of masturbation modern psychology provides much valid and useful information for formulating a more equitable judgment on moral responsibility and for orienting pastoral action. Psychology helps one to see how the immaturity of adolescence (which can sometimes persist after that age), psychological imbalance or habit can influence behavior, diminishing the deliberate character of the act and bringing about a situation whereby subjectively there may not always be serious fault. But in general, the absence of serious responsibility must not be presumed; this would be to misunderstand people's moral capacity. In the pastoral ministry, in order to form an adequate judgment in concrete cases, the habitual behavior of people will be considered in its totality, not only with regard to the individual's practice of charity and of justice but also with regard to the individual's care in observing the particular precepts of chastity. In particular, one will have to examine whether the individual is using the necessary means, both natural and supernatural, which Christian asceticism from its long experience recommends for overcoming the passions and progressing in virtue.
I agree. Let's make all the other positional players pitch one inning per week... that would be fair.
The traditional Catholic doctrine that masturbation constitutes a grave moral disorder Outlaw, I remember them emphasizing that when I was in Catholic school years ago. People tell me that isn't the case anymore. I think most in the American Church are embarrassed by this type of crap. Sad to say, but a good religion is being ruined by the stupidity of having a cult of wierd asexual wannabees advocating strange sexual practices from the Middle Ages to the rest of the members.. You are right to point out the contradiction of some of these Catholics who choose to ignore the Pope and support America's needless wars, while also claiming to be strict Catholics. On a more positive note, most Catholics ignore the stupidity on birth control ,and of course, masturbation.
IMO Hate is neither good nor bad What you do with it . .. . that is what taints it I hate poverty I hate Racism I don't think these are bad hates . . . . there is a time and a place for everything on this earth Rocket River
Yea like the ROUGHING the QB Rule .. . I may agree with the spirit of the rule but the QB ain't even a REAL football player anymore Why don't they just put the QB in the Pope-mobile back there and just let him throw oops. . . brought a football rant into the Baseball message WHILE WE AT IT THOUGH . . THE NO CELEBRATION RULE HAS TO GO TOO . . . Rocket River BILLY WHITE SHOES JOHNSON!!!! BUTCH JOHNSON!!! BRING BACK THE GREAT CELEBRATIONS!!1
How about that new artificial turf? That stuff is really sweet! Can we agree on that? OR...... How about the stupidity of the NBA "taunting" foul? Or that the side pipes on the Viper are very cool? And as a Catholic..... I will never get prostate cancer and I only have two kids in 10 years of marriage. Draw your own conclusions. I agree, the Church needs married priests who are not sex-deprived weirdoes. Or can we agree..... That the NCAA needs some serious reform? The BCS is a bunch of crap and we need a playoff? That the NFL is the most successful sports league right now?
Declaration of Independence, Fedearalist Papers, Constitution. Set up to protect from falws? No. Set up to provide freedom and the pursuit of happiness and life. Yes. Now thus said, I never said humans weren't perfect. However, our nation was built to strive for these things. Our nation has always acknowledged its moral responsibility. Even Klinton was recently quoted as saying that our nation has a duty to live up to high ethical standards... You guys can't argue with Klinton. You liberals love that guy. And yes, you can love without hating, if you were to take your sentence based off pure logic, it would entail that hate is a part of love. No, it is seperate.... MAybe what you meant to say was that you can't get away from hating things. Logically, that sentence would make more sense, and I would agree with you. However, one should strive not to hate things.
a little (large) philosophy lesson. Aristotle, the Politics (what basically all political philosophy either agrees with or disagrees with). Freedom is defined simply as you don't have anything or anyone restricting you to move. Now, before one of you brilliant liberals chimes in with, well times are changing, why are we going to listen to some philosopher from over 2000 years ago. You guys, Aristotle was smart. PRobably one of the smartest philosophers ever. Whether he lived 10 million years ago or yesterday, the words he says still heavily influence our lives. Shakespeare's view on the world would have been severly lessend if he had not been influenced so heavily by Aristotle's thought, and since Shakespeare is responsible for a large part of the developement of Western Civilization, its hard to think that we would be the same today without Aristotle. Despite this high praise, I think that I have to disagree with Aristotle on this one. Freedom is something contained within the individual. There is a personal identity that can never be taken away, not even Orwellian 1984 style. It's a gift given from God. It is not simply a political term. It does not come from some other human, but from you through God or whatever it is you believe in these days. However, it comes with duties and responsibilities, if we are to use it to the best of our abilities. Now, Oski, in the first post I said liberal shaningans as a joke, but if you want me to apologize for that I will. Also, the love I metioned in the first post was in regards to a general spirit of love, being better than a general spirit of hate. I think this is a principle Jefferson would write about as the persuit of happiness. It's inescapable by the way. All of mankind wants to be happy. Masochists are happy in their sadness. Love and happiness go hand in hand. Think of the Erasure song I love to hate you. Now, outlaw, I think we could agree that this might be love straying away from something good. However, that is not what I was trying to argue in this agreeing thread. The love was more of a man strives towards happiness no matter the case, which I would call a general struggle that one loves, MAn is free to make his own pitfalls along the way and deviate from the path, but in his mind he will still be struggling for happiness and be doing it with a spirit of love. If someone wants to argue with em about love, open up anoither forum and I'll probably get back to you tommorow. Thirdly, someone needs to check their CAtholic teachings. The Pope's stance on the war is not a matter of theological doctrine. Therefore he is not infallable on it. While I certainly do not advocate war and death and destruction, it is sometimes needed. That is a topic for another thread. I highly respect the Pope's view, but I have to go with the intelligence that I don't see, that you don't see, that none of us sees, that has about half the dems in support of war, and has our country going to war. However, the Catholic Church does still teach that masturabation is wrong. This I agree with. You can disagree with me. Isn't that wonderful! Thus said, I think we can keep that out of the forum and someone can open up a beatin' it thread somewhere else. I'd gladly make my thoughts known there as well, but not on today because I have to paint the fence. But you know what?!?! Some liberal will chime in with "It's all relative", thinking they are Jack Johnson or something, and then it doesn't matter does it.... but you know, I think when you do that, it makes nothing matter. Says the meatwad-- "AIn't no point to living we all just gonna die anyway." What a horrible outlook on life! To me stuff matters. But I sure as hell ain't gonna take away anybody's freedom to disagree with me. Just be careful not to take away my freedom to disagree with you. Now if anybody wants to make a logical argument against, love, or against happiness, or against any of those other principles I was just throwing out there, then go ahead... you could be right, I was merely suggesting that these are things we should be able to agree on. Just make sure to do it in a logical fashion, and thats includes not relying on calling me a papist to be your central argument. "Shoplifters of the world, Unite and take over!" Morrissey.
The NFL seriously needs to control player movement, or it will become like baseball. You can have a totally different team in 3 years. Who cares who win and who lose if I can't even keep up with who's on which team? Oops, I'm supposed to be agreeable in this thread. Who the heck want agreement in the D&D anyways?
I think that aspect makes it interesting. That and the fact that there are few of these awful "guaranteed" contracts like in the NBA that tie up a team's money forever and make players lazy.
"Paint the fence"? Is that what the college kids are calling it these days? Why do we need to keep it out of the forum exactly? Either you do it or you don't. Chris : "Sorry Grand Pa, you might wanna give that a minute or two " Grand Pa : "I know what your doing in there, and it's a sin...if you do it again ,your burn in hell." Chris : "But I do it everyday.... and sometimes twice." Grand Pa : "Mark my words lad , you may think your alone in there but god's watching, don't do it again."[Grand Pa walks away] Chris : "God's watching me do number 2? oh man I'm a sinner and God's a pervert."
You don't have to agree with every doctrine of your religion. I think the Church is wrong on birth control, mastubation and celibate priests. How can you say I'm opposed to homosexuality when I have no problem with what people do in the privacy of their own homes? I just don't support gay marriage nor do I support gay adoption. To me, it will never be a normal or accepted lifestyle. I may not agree with it personally, but I'm not going to force people not to engage in such behavior. If that isn't the definition of "tolerance," I don't know what is. Geez, this thread quickly went away from what we agree on mighty quick!
But why don't you consider it "normal"? Because of your Catholic upbringing right? If you feel the Church is wrong on those issues then couldn't they be wrong about this as well? What makes masturbation OK but homosexuality not OK? "just" opposed to marriage and adoption? those might seem like small insignificant issues to you but to many people they're not.
I would say a bit of both my environment and my religious upbringing. I don't want to get in this argument, but I will say this....you must draw the line somewhere. And I draw my line at homosexuality. The Church is correct in its view of homosexuality. I may not agree with it all of the time (see above), but I don't believe that homosexuality should be considered a normal lifestyle.
