The left ascends to power in Greece, creating uncertainty and hope

Name-calling, talking about "credentials," posting pictures...all signs of a desperate person losing another argument in embarrassing fashion.

Next you're going to start posting your linkedin profile and copying and pasting your resume.

 

Then:

This is just for you, Kwame-boi:

 

I earned an MBA in 2012 and am currently working on a PhD in Political Science.

 

They can probably write it all off as the cost of doing business. One of the perks of running a small business!

 

That may be politically hard to take for the rest of the euro countries. Spain and Italy aren't exactly doing well either but they aren't asking for haircuts

 

Time to get a refund on this supposed degree and use that money to take reading comprehension and ESL classes.

 

Alright jokers, let's get this s*** back on track, eh?

ATWorld, these are the two posts you never responded to, instead resorting to name calling. Can you please just drop the bs, condescension, credential thumping and all that jazz and debate these points -- if you can't, I understand, but let's give you a shot here:

 

I will try to do it, just for you, ok?

I don't even know how I am supposed to seriously answer this. Yes, if you enter into a written contract, you don't really have any responsibilities outside of what is written into the contract. Is this supposed to be some extra-clever revelation? Why does it surprise you - HamJam - that I am not really engaging much with this statement? It really doesn't tell us anything: If you enter into a written contract, your main responsibilities under the contract will be to do what is written in the contract. ORLY?

And as I posted above: If you borrow money under a written agreement, your main responsibility under the agreement will be to repay the money within a specified timeframe with a specified interest. And that is what the Greek are trying to wiggle out of.

So I really don't know why you, HamJam, are complaining that I would not have addressed this (non-) statement.

I have.

This is where we disagree. If someone borrows money knowing full well that they will never really be able to repay the money, it comes close to defrauding the lender, especially when documents and credentials are forged so you obtain the money. That is what happened here.

This is actually the very first time I have seen you even acknowledge at all that the Greeks hold any responsibility at all. I could quote literally tens of posts in which you complain about austerity here, Angela Merkel there, poor Greek children dying there. This is the very first time that you even acknowledge at all that the Greek side is at fault.

Neither do the German or any other European people - the difference is that the Greek people elected the Greek government. The Germans didn't. The French didn't. The Greek did.

First of all, this is overly dramatic. Greece is not Liberia. Then, the reason that Greek people have it bad is because of the failures of their own government and because of their endemic culture of corruption and stealing from the state (on all levels - communal, regional, country and EU level), and because there is hardly any viable industry in Greece. The whole culture is built on government redistribution and "tricking the system". Yes, this is painting with a somewhat broad brush, and certainly doesn't apply to every person, and it is disheartening and sad for everyone who is not individually at fault, but those who had no chance to elect the Greek government are even more removed from the situation and why should they pay for it and not those who are part of the population that elected the Greek politicians for decades and have been part of the whole corrupt system. Many Greek commentators agree with this viewpoint. Yeah, it's easier to elect someone who makes wild promises about all the goodies the government will give you - but someone has to pay for it. And why should everyone else in Europe not only pay for Greek people's accumulated debt, but for even more freebies from the government that exceed anything any other European country does - while rich Greek guys buy tons of property in Berlin, London and other places to have their money in safe havens, while driving up real estate prices in those places in countries from which the money was funneled into their Greek accounts.

No, it's the simple concept that when you take out a loan, you should pay it back.

With that argument, no country would ever have to repay their debt: "It drives people to the political fringes". No **** Sherlock - but guess what happens when people of other countries need to continue paying for the freebies of another country which has been corrupt and poorly managed for decades - right: It will drive people in the countries that pay to the political fringes.

 

Oh, the feels, the feels -- their warmness is only exceeded by their fuzziness :grin: I thank you ATW....

It isn't a non statement. You said the Greek government is not taking responsibility, Major pointed out that they are indeed taking responsibility to the extent that such a responsibility is defined by the agreement they signed -- thus they are taking responsibility, even in defaulting on their loan, as described in their agreement. Any other responsibilities that you are saying they should have exist outside the agreement they signed, and I am not sure what you are basing these responsibilities on.

Thanks for answering ATW...now perhaps the discussion will be back on track.

 

SMFH - I am saying that their core responsibility is to repay the loan (with interest). That is not "outside the agreement they signed". That is at the very core of the agreement they signed. It is part of the essentialia negotii. How is violating your one and only main contractual obligation "taking responsibility"?

It's like you and me entering into a contract that you sell me your xbox. If I take the xbox, but never pay you, you are saying that I am "taking responsibility"? Srsly?

 

If the contract we sign has an eventuality for what occurs if you don't pay me, and you indeed go through with that eventuality, then yes, you would be taking responsibility and honoring the terms of the contract.

How about a sports example. The Bucks signed Sanders to a large contract. Sanders agreed to pay for the Bucks in return for all that money. Now he doesn't want to play anymore according to some reports. If he decides to quit the NBA, there is a clause in the contract that governs what will then happen. By following that clause, he is still honoring the contract -- even if he is doing so in a way that Bucks fans will hate him for.

So, if you want to hate the Greeks for acting in such a way that does not benefit you and your country -- I get that. But, as long as they are following the rules of their agreement, I don't see how they are not being responsible.

 

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/gcITeGy-U6w?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

No, you would not honor the core obligation of the contract. The whole point of the "eventuality for what occurs if you don't pay" clause is exactly to address non-performance of the main obligation under the contract, which is your main responsibility. Why don't you guys post such a clause from loan agreements with Greece.

No, he is not honoring the contract. The clause is about what happens if he doesn't honor the contract - what happens is that he will not get any money anymore if he doesn't play. The difference here is that Greece already has all the money - and then decides they don't want to pay it back (or might have decided that already before ever getting the money). So your example does not apply.

I don't hate the Greek. I am just educating you that the main responsibility for Greece's troubles lies with their past governments (who were elected by the population of Greece, not that of France, Denmark or Germany), not with lenders who are just expecting for Greece to honor their obligation under an agreed to contract to repay a loan. If you think that it means "honoring the obligation under a loan contract" to just keep the money and say "thanks but I am not repaying anything, what do you want to do now, haha?" - then please let me borrow $ 1 million from you. I'll promise to pay it back. Thanks in advance.

 

You are andymoon, right?

 

Thanks Kwame, for admitting you lost another argument in embarrassing fashion.

Spoiler

 

yes proponent of the icky sticky

 

I'd rather talk about Shane Battier and his intangibles.

Or better yet, his WIFE.