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The Last 10 Years of Personnel Moves and Drafting have been a Disaster!

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by crash5179, Dec 30, 2003.

  1. emjohn

    emjohn Contributing Member

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    Groin injury - career's over. I don't think he's officially retired though.

    Evan
     
  2. rockets-#1

    rockets-#1 Contributing Member

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    Dude, do you think Peja and Dirk were STARS in their second seasons? They most definitely weren't...Nachbar just needs more time (development and playing).
     
  3. HillBoy

    HillBoy Contributing Member

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    Such as?
     
  4. HillBoy

    HillBoy Contributing Member

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    Based on what you just wrote, it's obvious that the Rockets are NOT one of those teams with "superior overseas scouting".
     
  5. Woofer

    Woofer Contributing Member

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    re: foreign scouting, don't forget the Turkan.


    Not sure why so many people see getting SF as a positive personnel move.
     
  6. derrock

    derrock Contributing Member

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    Since I'm from the area, lets look at the Warriors under the Chris Cohan era:

    THE GOOD
    97: Traded Chris Mullin to Indiana for Duane Ferrell and Erick Dampier
    98: Acquired Muggsy Bogues and Tony Delk(CHAR) for BJ Armstrong
    01: Drafted Jason Richardson, Troy Murphy, and Gilbert Arenas (2nd round)


    THE BAD
    94: Traded Chris Webber to Washington for Tom Gugliotta and three #1's (3 #1s look good but wait till you see what they did with them)
    95: Drafted Joe Smith with the #1 pick (immediately behind him were McDyess, Stackhouse, Wallace, Garnett)
    96: Drafted Todd Fuller (ahead of Kobe, Peja, Nash, Jermaine O'Neal)
    96: Traded Tim Hardaway and Chris Gatling to Miami for Bimbo Coles and Kevin Willis
    97: Drafted Adonal Foyle with #8 pick (#9 was McGrady)
    98: Traded Latrell Sprewell to New York for John Starks, Chris Mills, and Terry Cummings
    98: Traded draft rights to Vince Carter for Antawn Jamison
    99: Drafted Jeff Foster but traded him to Indiana for Vonteego Cummings
    99: Traded John Starks and Billy Owens in a three team deal for Larry Hughes Warriors do not even tender Hughes as a FA
    01: Traded Donyell Marshall for Danny Fortson and Adam Keefe
    02: Drafted Mike Dunleavy with #3 pick
    02: Traded Marc Jackson to Minnesota for Dean Garrett and a 2nd rounder
    03: Traded Antawn Jamison, Danny Fortson, Jiri Welsch, and Chris Mills to Dallas for Nick Van Exel, Avery Johnson, Antoine Rigaudeau, Popeye Jones, and Evan Eschmeyer
    03: Fail to re-sign Gilbert Arenas because owner does not shake his hand okay, this is more of a he said/she said deal

    Also, over the last eight years, 7 different head coaches.

    I'd have to say the Rockets aren't the best at personnel moves, but they are not a disaster.
     
  7. mingboki

    mingboki Member

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    Charlie and Rich dont know what they are talking about. You judge "hits and misses" based on what only matters in the end,and that is wins and loses. The rockets ever since 1999 have been just average or below average. I dont doubt CD means well and is trying his best,but the end result is that wins and loses are the result from the moves made,drafts,trades,signings, and so the fact the rockets have a average record for so long proves CD is "just average". If he was that good the rockets wouldnt be missing the playoffs every year. But personally I blame Rudy. He was the one responsible for the albatross signings .
     
  8. emjohn

    emjohn Contributing Member

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    Chicago Bulls -
    Clear the decks with a championship team, declaring that all the cap room will let them reload immediately - except no one but Ron Mercer and Eddie Robinson would sign.

    E-Robb is Derek Coleman without the production
    Mercer got sent to the Pacers for Rose, who got sent to the Raptors since he also proved to be locker room cancer.

    They traded away their one solid piece in Elton Brand to the Clips so they could have an all-immature tagteam of Chandler and Curry.

    Draft Jamal Crawford who misses his first season due to injury.

    Draft Jay "can't miss" Williams who goes on the IL for low confidence. Later takes out his career on a streetbike.

    Crawford, meanwhile is irked that managment made it clear that he had no place on the team as soon as Can't Miss was drafted. He's one of their only good players, and wants out because of the snub.

    They hired Tim Floyd. They had Cartwright follow. Skiles isn't much more than a human temper tantrum.

    Should we continue? That franchise is going nowhere but Clipperville.

    Evan
     
  9. crash5179

    crash5179 Contributing Member

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    I don't want anyone to interpret this as a bash CD thread because it's not. To be truthful I don't really know who is the one charged with the ultimate responsibility to make the call on drafts and personnel decisions. All I am saying is that IMHO the results of the moves over the last 10 years has been very, very poor.

    I also don't how wanted Pippen was or how everyone thought that Shandon Anderson was a steal, I am only basing the success on the end results and the end results were horrible. Guess what? Maybe Denver, LA, Dallas and Portland all wanted Shandon but we got him and the mistake belongs to us, the fact that other teams may have wanted is irrelevant.

    To borrow a quote from Bill Parcells,
    Well guess what? There has been an awful lot of ugly babies come out of the Rockets organization over the course of the last 10 years.
     
  10. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    Crash -

    I'm with you, just I would shorten it to the last 5-6 years not the last 10. Sure, they've made some good moves, but just as many bad moves. The same may be applicable to other teams throughout the league, but just thinking about it, over the last 5 years the Lakers, Kings, Spurs, Mavs, T-Wolves (who didn't even have draft picks) have all made a significantly higher ratio of good moves to bad moves than the Rockets, or Warriors, or Bulls or Heat or Cavs.

    The other argument is that hindsight is 20-20. Well, I just don't believe that it's all a matter of luck. Could Eddie have panned out better?? Sure, I was ectatic when the trade went down, but then there's a reason he slipped to 7th in the draft when it was widely regarded that he had top pick talent, and there's a reason why I'm not an NBA GM. I vividly remember rumblings of teams passing on him specifically because of character issues.

    Over the last 5-6 years, the Rockets have consistently made bad personell decisions...call it bad luck or call it bad management. I know in my business 5-6 years of bad luck will get you fired every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
     
  11. MFW2310

    MFW2310 Contributing Member

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    If you are suggesting the Grizz screwed themselves, that's just not true. If we are able to predict that Dickerson would have a career ending injury they hey, look in the future, check out if there are any undue surgeries for Yao. Chicago wouldn't have drafted JWill either, who's actually worse considering he's in his 2nd season. Also, maybe the fact that the Grizz went bankrupt and got moved had something to do about that too. Both Dickerson and Othella Harrington were pretty decent role players, something we need right now. Here's what happened, Vancouver (crap team) drafted Steve (spoiled brat) as a SG; brat wanted to play PG AND did not want to play for crap team; so brat pouts and throws a tantrum; crap team was going bankrupt so they can't afford babysitting brat; Houston (dumb team) came by said we'll take brat off your hands; dumb team was the best offer (actually I think the only offer) crap team got so they took it. End of story.

    The Yao draft was the DUH draft. We needed a big man. We got the number 1. There was a big man with a lot of skill and A LOT of potential. And we were supposed to draft a PG? If we did that it'll be another in a long list of bad roster moves, especially after JWill crashed his bike.

    I don't think that at this point anybody can say CD is a good GM. At best we'd be arguing that he's not absolutely lousy as a GM.
     
  12. derrock

    derrock Contributing Member

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    If the best offer was Dickerson, Harrington, Carr, and Brent Price, I have a tough time believing that the Rockets are the dumb team. You can spin it anyway you want, but the Rockets traded two role players and two stiffs for a perennial All-Star (and if drafting JWill would have been a bad move, the same can be said about Dickerson). Now, even if you do not like Stevie at all, don't you think if the Rockets traded him today, we'd get more than what we gave up?

    The Yao draft was not a DUH draft. Back then, there was many who felt we should have traded down (Brand, Odom, even Jamison). You should remember how many columnists and "experts" predicted a Chinese Shawn Bradley.
     
  13. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    The Barkley trade was the beginning of disaster. I still believe that the move was more about marketing than winning. Why would you try to build a team around two post starters who need the ball to be effective. It made no sense.
     
  14. MFW2310

    MFW2310 Contributing Member

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    1. Steve is not a perennial all-star. Even Rockets fans would admit to that.

    2. The Grizzlies could either let SF walk or trade him for something else. Vancouver would be the DUMBER team if they didn't at least get something back.

    3. I did not suggest drafting JWill is wrong because he got injured. Just like the Dickerson deal, nobody could predict he would be injured. Which is why I said IF we could predict injuries, the Bulls WOULDN'T have drafted him.
     
  15. spacepimp

    spacepimp Contributing Member

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    Jwill sucked before he got hurt, and francis has been an allstar the past two years.
     
  16. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    The barkley trade was the beginning of the end
    INMO
    of the championship runs
    Cassel and Horry were our Future
    at that time
    Chuck Brown and Bryant were servicable

    People diss the Collier Trade
    but didn't that net us Nachbar
    I mean
    WHO WANTS PZIBILLA???
    We got Collier and a Pick
    [I actually did not think Collier was that bad. . . just the odd man out]

    Rocket River
     
  17. Ming the Dream

    Ming the Dream Contributing Member

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    Actually this will be the 3rd straight All Star appearance by Steve, so yes he is a perennial All Star. Now whether he deserves to be a perennial All Star is up for much debate, but the fact that he is one is just the facts. Dude he's started the past 2.;)
     
  18. Sonny

    Sonny Contributing Member

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    Crash - great thread, you make extremely valid points.

    But I have to agree with Raven and Jeff, just about any team has had this kind of hit/miss drafting. The Rockets have probably been about average for the NBA.

    Just look at the Golden State drafting that derrock posted, we've bested them over the past 10yrs for sure.

    I wonder how many heads have rolled for the poor drafting that most NBA teams do?
     
  19. derrock

    derrock Contributing Member

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    Well, it worked for San Antonio in '99, but that's because Robinson was willing to defer to Duncan (and Duncan knew it was DRob's team). I believe the 3HOF experiment failed because of the egos. Obviously, Drexler and Barkley did not get along but I think Hakeem had trouble giving up his touches to Charles. I'm not against the trade because they felt if they overcame Seattle, they'd get to the Finals (remember, they were swept the year before by the Sonics). Also, I think they lost a little faith in Horry and Cassell because they weren't developing in the type of players they thought they'd become (hindsight shows that they both needed more freedom). So, they decided to risk the future in order to win now, something many sports franchises do. It failed but the trade did make sense at the time.
     
  20. SuperS32

    SuperS32 Member

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    The 1990's LA Clippers' Draft Days

    1990- Bo Kimble (8), Loy Vaught (13) ; Available: Dee Brown, Elden Campbell, Ton Kukoc, Antonio Davis

    1991: Elliot Perry, Joe Wiley (#37 and 38); Available: Isaac Austin, Bobby Phills (not too big of a deal)

    1992: Randy Woods (16); Available: Tracy Murray, Jon Barry, Latrell Sprewell

    1993: Terry DEhere (13); Available: Chris Mills, Sam Cassel, ERivin Johnson

    1994: Lamond Murray (7); Available: Brian Grant, Eddie Jones, Aaron Mckie

    1995: Antonio Mcdysse (2) - good pick, but then they TRADE HIM FOR RODNEY ROGERS AND #15 -BRENT BARRY; available at 2 - Garnett, Wallace, Stackhouse..you get the point; available at 15 - Ratliff, Sura, Finley

    1996:Lorenzan Wright (7); available: Stojacavic, Dampier, Bryant, Jermain Oneal...

    1997: Mo Taylor (14) - good draft

    1998 - Micheal Olawakandi (1), Brian Skinner (22)- bad draft; passed on 3 perenial all stars at #1, and Al Harrington, Rashard Lewis, and Tyrone Lue at 22

    1999 - Lamar Odom (4); passed on Shawn Marion, Andre Miller, Ron Artest, Corey Maggette, AK47 - not terrible, although Odom really never played that much for them b/c of injuries and suspensions
     

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