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The Last 10 Years of Personnel Moves and Drafting have been a Disaster!

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by crash5179, Dec 30, 2003.

  1. giddyup

    giddyup Contributing Member

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    Cassell was not a second round pick.
     
  2. subtomic

    subtomic Contributing Member
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    We traded Turckan for a draft pick. I don't remember if we used it or traded it again.

    Talking about 2nd round failures is ridiculous. Go to www.nbadraft.net and you'll see that only about 2 2nd round players per year stick in the league. That means a team is likely to pick one decent 2nd rounder only once every 15 years. We have picked 2 (Cuttino, Othella) in 10 years. Both Livingston and Morris were good gambles (Livingston was a stud HS PG whose college career had been stalled by an ACL injury and Morris was a college player who stayed too long). That's pretty good IMHO.

    Rhodes was a weak pick in 1997, but that was also a weak draft. Same in 2000, although Collier was probably the worst possible pick and we should have kept Najera instead of Langhi. Griffin was a chance that was probably worth taking as he was a monster player as a Freshman. I still feel the Rockets made their mistake not in evaluating his talent, but not interviewing him before the draft. I wouldn't have traded 3 players however.

    Still, I think the Rockets have done pretty well. The draft is always a crapshoot, and every lottery team has a few failures every 10 years.
     
  3. Jeff

    Jeff Clutch Crew

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    Why did you leave out the Drexler trade, the Barkley trade, the Elie trade, the Horry draft, the Cassell draft, the Francis trade, the fact that the Pippen deal netted us picks and Cato, the fact that several deals we made landed us the pick that became Yao Ming? By the way, Rhodes was actually dealt for substance despite being out of the league. We got a first round pick for Bryce Drew! Kenny Thomas wasn't coming back given the glut at power forward and only Memphis was crazy enough to give up so much money for Posey.

    Anderson and Taylor signed her FOR THE EXCEPTION - not small feats at the time. Jackson signed here for less than he probably could've gotten elsewhere. The Anderson deal unloaded a guy who wanted WAY too much for a player whom we traded to acquire a trade exception we have yet to use.

    Rich and Charlie went over this one day on 610. Charlie actually talked about numerous other teams and demonstrated that, on balance, we are no worse off than any other team in the league. We have hits and misses like everyone else.

    Unless you can go through ever team and point out how many deals they had that were so much better than our own, there is no proof that we are that much worse off than any other team in the NBA.
     
  4. Jeff

    Jeff Clutch Crew

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    Correct. Cassell was pick #26 the year after Horry was drafted.
     
  5. Sleepy

    Sleepy Member

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    This team is bad off. The cap is a big problem for this team. And the moves made over the last 5 years have been very questionable. CD has made some bad calls.
     
  6. whiplashtony

    whiplashtony Member

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    I can't believe your going to dog the Zerge Zwikker draft ...
     
  7. AMS

    AMS Contributing Member

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    We got Posey for KT. Basically that wouldnt be a draft blunder. Not signing KT to a huge contract is a good move by the Rox. And the Posey contract is also 50-50
     
  8. AMS

    AMS Contributing Member

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    Scottie only played 50 games coz it was a lockout season that year. And basically we got Cato for him. And we rented other players like Walt Williams, so it wasn't that bad of a desicion. If we can pull off a trade for someone decent for Pippen It will show as a pretty good trade
     
  9. Ying Yang

    Ying Yang Member

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    I think you should name each Scout that recommended we draft each of the players. I think that here is our weekness, it needs exposure!
     
  10. benchmoochie

    benchmoochie Contributing Member

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    what about when we traded Edjuardo Najera to the Mavs for Dan Langhi?
     
  11. crash5179

    crash5179 Contributing Member

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    You know what just take it as me laying out the info and not judging if it makes you feel better. But damn dude, how many teams screwed up twice with three 1st round draft choices in one draft.

    And my post is not just about one or two goof ups, its about a series of screw ups over the course of 10 years.

    BTW, Horry and Cassell both fall outside of the 10 years that I am speaking of. Also Cassell was the 24th pick in the 2003 draft which makes him a 1st round pick not a second round pick.

    I never said that the Rockets have not made any good deals or draft picks but they have been severly limited while the bad moves have come in the bunches.

    And...before you talk bad about the drafting of Gooden by West just remember that although he traded Gooden he got back Mike Miller so regardless of how you look at it that draft pick is still working for the Grizz.
     
  12. crash5179

    crash5179 Contributing Member

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    I did not mention the very few good moves but a very large part of my post was about personel moves so please read the whole thing.

    You can feel free to mention the good moves and compare them to the bad moves if you like.

    The Pippen move sucked. It does not matter what we thought of the move because we are not the ones that getting paid to make those decissions. The Pippen trade turned into a nightmare.
     
  13. crash5179

    crash5179 Contributing Member

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    Jeff,

    I did not mention Horry and Cassell because they do not apply. Both were drafted prior to 94 and were not decisions made in the last 10 years. The same applies for Ellie, we acquired him prior to 94.

    I'm sorry but any attempt to sugar coat the Pippen trade is just laughable. BTW, what did those picks we got for Pippen net us? Nothing. I love what Cato has become but for most of his time with us we can all agree he was horrible.

    You are making a lot of excuses for bad decisions.

    Anderson was a bad pick up regardless of how much we got him for.

    I don't think we can look at the MoT acquisition as one that has worked out yet do you?

    Sure there has been some bad luck during the last ten years but damn man are we going to continue to make excuses in another 10 years?

    Hey the facts are there and you can feel free to interpret them however you wish but if you think that they are good moves then we will just have to disagree.

    Finally how can you defend the lack of talent aquired from 3 1st round draft picks in one draft, twice with in a few of drafts of each other. I mean the best thing we can say about any of those 1st round picks is that one of them contributed to getting Francis. Thats all! Damn man you would think we would have at least lucked into at least one keeper out of those two drafts, especikally since there were quality players picked all around our picks during those drafts.
     
  14. cheshire

    cheshire Contributing Member

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    The draft is nothing more than a lottery. It's a hit or miss task.

    If there is a way, I'd get the Rox to tank the 97 season and a chance at landing Duncan. Wishful thinking.

    SF needs a change in scenery and so does the Rox. 5 years on and to me he has regressed rather than improve his game. The 15 shots can go to Yao.

    On Yao, I'm still undecided. He can be really good but he needs to be fitter, more consistent and most of all, get some of that competitive fire that burned within Hakeem. He should get 15-20 shots a night regardless on who is guarding him.

    It's only his second season, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
     
  15. rockergordon

    rockergordon Member

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    I think 10 years encompasses 94.... Just my um....opinion
     
  16. rockergordon

    rockergordon Member

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    haha, prior....my bad
     
  17. MFW2310

    MFW2310 Contributing Member

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    I don't know why people treat the Steve Francis trade as a good trade. I'm sure we ended up with the better player, but did we really do an anal job on Vancouver? SF wasn't gonna play for the Grizzlies any ways.

    For those that watch hockey, they (Vancouver) couldn't pull an Eric Lindros on Steve and say play for us or don't play at all and sit him for 3 seasons. They were a LOUSY small market team on the brink of bankruptcy (which ultimately did go bankrupt). They needed all their players and picks to play AND play well. When the Steve issues came up what we offered was the only thing they can do. It WAS their only option.

    They could have either let Steve walk while they went bankrupt or get the best they could get, which they did. So if we are going to group that as part of CD's "good" roster moves then there suddenly appeared MANY more good roster moves in ALL of the pro leagues.
     
  18. pasox2

    pasox2 Contributing Member
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    SOME teams have superior overseas scouting. Rockets could invest there. Wouldn't you like Peja? How about Ginobli? Nowitzki, perhaps? Oh, my bad, we have Boki.
     
  19. emjohn

    emjohn Contributing Member

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    Can you list any assests they have to show for the trade?

    Pippen was the most sought-after FA when we brought him in, no one could have seen that he'd be such a prick. Personally, though, I was worried about all the back problems that had been killing him during the Bulls last championship run.

    If there's been a trend I've noticed, it's been the obsession with stiffs that can shoot 3s. I honestly wonder if that was Rudy pushing for his mirror image. Chillcut, Bullard, Collier, Langhi, Turkan, it goes on.

    As for CD, I would consider:

    -Rockets payroll is just under $51 Mill, at the bottom third of the league. Contrasted to half the league sitting on the wrong side of the luxury tax. Rockets have flexibility.

    -Mo T is arguably the only unmovable contract on the team. Check out Seattle, with Jerome James and Calvin Booth (this after the notorious McIllvaine signing) or the Suns with Googs and Penny. CD has done a fair job with handing out contracts or letting players walk (Dream, Anderson, Posey, etc).

    -Rockets didn't botch the 2002 draft. Don't forget how many "experts" were clamoring that Jay Williams and Mike Dunleavy were the real prizes and Yao was just going to be the next Yinka Dare sideshow. Jordan certainly blew it with his pick, there was the mess of the 2000 draft, etc.

    -Too many people were dancing in the streets after the EG draft day trade to fairly pan it three years later. It's an unfortunate case of a kid blowing it, but it's happened. If anything, I believe Rudy and staff could have headed things off by being more involved in player development. They let a hell of a lot of things fester.

    Evan
     
  20. rednene

    rednene Member

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    so what did happen to Michael Dickerson?
     

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