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The Last 10 Years of Personnel Moves and Drafting have been a Disaster!

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by crash5179, Dec 30, 2003.

  1. crash5179

    crash5179 Contributing Member

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    Let me start by saying that I have been on the flip side of this argument before so forgive me for being a turncoat but the evidence is now overwhelming. But the drafting and Personnel moves has just not produced the type of picks over the course of the last 10 years that are conducive to a play-off team.

    Highlights of the last 10 Years of Drafting

    Twice in the last 10 years we have had 3 first round picks and we have managed to parley those into squat.

    - In 1998 we drafted Michael Dickerson, Bryce Drew and Mirsad Tuckan. Of those three only Brice Drew remains in the NBA as a full time bench warmer. We passed on such players as Matt Harpring, Radoslav Nesterovic and Ricky Davis.

    - 2001 we had 3 picks again and traded those picks to New Jersey for the draft rights of Eddie Griffin. Eddie has not played a single minute this year and was cut before being picked up by….of all teams the New Jersey nets. The Rockets once again went into this draft with a lot of fire power and came out with nothing. Other players selected in that years draft that could have been on the Rockets are Richard Jefferson, Troy Murphy, Zach Randolph, Jason Collins, Jamaal Tinsley and Tony Parker to name a few.

    A run down of the last 10 drafts;

    2003 - no firsts and no our only second is not ready for the NBA
    2002 - 1st round picks: Yao Ming and Bostjan Nachbar 2nd round pick: Tito Maddox (out of the NBA)
    2001 - 1st round pick: Eddie Griffin (cut from the team and has not played this year.) 2nd round pick: Terence Morris (out of the NBA)
    2000 - 1st round pick: Jason Collier (out of the NBA) 2nd round pick: Dan Langhi
    1999 - 1st round pick: Kenny Thomas (traded to Philly along with a second round pick for nothing) 2nd round picks: Tyrone Washington and Venson Hamilton (both out of the NBA)
    1998 - 1st round picks: Michael Dickerson (out of the NBA), Bryce Drew, Mirsad Turckan (out of the NBA) 2nd round pick: Cuttino Mobley
    1997 - 1st round pick: Rhodrick Rhodes (out of the NBA) 2nd round pick: Zerge Zwikker (out of the NBA)
    1996 - No 1st round pick. 2nd round picks: Othella Harrington, Randy Livingston (out of the NBA), Terrell Bell (out of the NBA)
    1995 - No 1st round pick. 2nd round pick: Erick Meek (out of the NBA)
    1994 - No 1st round pick. 2nd round pick: Albert Burdett (out of the NBA)

    Out of 9 first round Picks in the last 10 years:
    - Only Yao Ming and Bostjan Nachbar remain with the team
    - 4 are no longer in the NBA and another might not play again

    Out of the 21 total picks
    - only 8 are in the NBA today
    - only 5 have done anything that is currently benefiting the team. Yao Ming, Bostjan Nachbar and Cuttino Mobley are on the team. Dickerson and Harrington were part of the trade that brought Steve Francis to the team. The rest either failed to make the team, were cut after an unsuccessful stay with the team or traded for away for a net gain of nothing.


    Highlights of the Bad Personnel Moves of the last 10 Years

    In 1999 we traded Roy Rogers and a second round draft pick for Scottie Pippen. Pippen was a complete malcontent and only played 50 games with the Rockets before being traded to Portland.

    In 2001 we traded Shandon Anderson for Glen Rice. Not that Shandon was worth anything but it was far better to let him walk than to trade him for a player that was hurt the majority of the time he was here and had a huge negative affect on the salary cap.

    In 2002 we traded Kenny Thomas and a 2nd round draft choice for the rights to James Posey. Kenny was only our most reliable and hardest working Power Forward on the team. He was a good defender and a shot a decent percentage. He was certainly more accomplished than James Posey and has been the better player between the two. Not that it matters anymore because James Posey was not resigned at the end of the year and Kenny Thomas, who has been one of the very few good draft picks of the Rockets over the last 10 years was given away for nothing…hell we even gave up a second round pick just to get rid of him. HeyPartner if you are reading this somewhere you warned us about this and you were right.

    In 2003 Glen Rice finally has some value…or at least we think he does. We saw that Terrell Brandon’s expiring contract, which was basically the exact same amount as Rice’s expiring contract, was enough to get Atlanta to part with Glen Robinson. Houston parley’s the expiring contract of Glen Rice into John Amaechi and a trade exception that can not be used in conjunction with another player. Oh and once again we also had to give up draft picks to in order to obtain a player that has yet to log a single minute in a Rockets uniform. This is with out a doubt one of the most puzzling moves in Rockets history.


    Ten years of pathetic moves can only be blamed on bad luck for so long. After a while someone has to be accountable for the plethora of bad moves that our team has made. .
     
  2. VesceySux

    VesceySux Contributing Member

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    Steve Francis was drafted by the Rockets in the first round (after draft trade), and he is currently with the team. You forgot about him.
     
  3. annthuyn

    annthuyn Member

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    i think terrence morris had some potential. he was just never really given the chance. look at boki, who knew he's a pretty good shooter
     
  4. VesceySux

    VesceySux Contributing Member

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    Oops. Francis wasn't acquired in a draft-day trade. I'm an idiot. Carry on.
     
  5. derrock

    derrock Contributing Member

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    Crash, shouldn't we consider the Rockets pretty lucky?? I mean, 10 years of horrible moves puts us with the Hawks, Warriors, and Clippers in terms of personell decisions. Yet, this team, at the very least, plays meaningful games in late March/April for 7 of the last 10 years and we've assembled a team with young, talented players. So why aren't we that bad?? Because of some good personell moves. We fleeced the Grizzlies, made an excellent pick in Cat and stuck with Yao as our #1 pick. These moves have offset the ones you've mentioned into making the Rockets what they are today...a mediocre team.
     
  6. thumbs

    thumbs Contributing Member

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    No, Vancouver drafted Francis. We traded for him when he told the Griz he would not play for them.
     
  7. buzz1701

    buzz1701 Contributing Member

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    You nailed it pretty well. And we're paying the price today for all these boneheaded moves. It made me sick to dump Griffin last week. Just another in a long list of stupid Rocket pesonnel moves. We could build a pretty good team on ex-rox players now playing with other teams. PS Francis was NOT drafted by the Rockets, but by Vancouver.
     
  8. ROCKET RICH NYC

    ROCKET RICH NYC Contributing Member

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    Man...you can Nitpick just about EVERY TEAM IN THE NBA. Every team has made just about as equal if not worse mistakes. It's part of the business. Can we think of the good things that have happened?

    The Evil that men do long lives after them! The good is oft interred with their bones! - William Shakespeare
     
  9. Raven

    Raven Member

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    The facts don't lie. Stealing SF has been the only bright spot, and that one great trade doesn't take away from the laundry list of horrible front office blunders.

    Oh don't forget to include the huge contracts given to:

    MN
    MT
    Cato (never in the history of the NBA has so much cash been given to one player simply for one outstanding pre-season game)

    The Rockets need a new GM to go along with their new coach.

    Raven
     
  10. Doctor Robert

    Doctor Robert Contributing Member

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    Out of the draft picks you mentioned.... the moves that I MIGHT have argued were bad in the first place are as follows:

    -Rhoderick Rhodes (I thought he was too much of a long shot)
    -Bryce Drew (I was neutral at the time, but short and white don't usually make good NBA players)
    -Mirsad Turckan (I defended the pick, but thought Rashard might have been better... neither was an obvious choice at the time)
    -Kenny Thomas (I thought he was lazy in college, and would never produce because of his height and weight)
    -Jason Collier (Everyone hated this one)

    Pippen was a great trade, SF was a great trade, EG was an incredible trade. Othella and Cuttino were some of best 2nd round picks in the last decade for the entire NBA.

    I don't think that the Rocket's problems are due to foreseeable reasons. Our players display lots of potential, and have since the day they were aquired... they just don't seem to be paying off.
     
  11. RunninRaven

    RunninRaven Contributing Member
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    I propose you go back and do the exact same analysis with like 5 other random teams, crash (I would, but I don't have the time and don't really care). My bet is you get close to the same results with 4 of the 5.
     
  12. AlexVanderpool

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    So obviously CD has to go...but i dont fully trust JVG having full personell control either
     
  13. leebigez

    leebigez Contributing Member

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    I think what really underscores everything is when we finally get a chance to get a quality player for the Rice contract, we wind up with Amechi. The Wolves willed Brandon into Spreewell , while we wound up with nothing. The Rockets could have kept Griffin until he was pemitted back to the team, packag him up with another player and come up with something good, really good. Look at how many teams went after Griffin and you tell me the Rockets couldn't get anything out of it? Management used to make things happen, bu recently, they've slipped up a bit. I could but i won't talk about my suggestion when the Rockets had the 3 picks and th slew of fa's in 01. I thought they should have let Taylor,Norris and Anderson walk into the sunset. Resign Hakeem to 2 yrs 8m per an draft Jefferson,Randolph and Haywood also retaining a cheaper Tierre Bron or Sean Colson. What would have been the result? Hakeem would have been of the books this past summer,either Thomas or Randolph would be your starting 4, and since that was the yr Franicis missed with all the injuries, the Rox would have probably had the same record as they did when they got Ming. Francis,Mobley,Jefferson,Randolph or Thomas and Ming. On the bench you would have Haywood and Cato,Brown and did i mention the 12m in capspce that could have been used this summer on Fa's? I thought that was a defining moment in whih management could have really set this tem up fo the future and they pretty much blew it.
     
  14. crash5179

    crash5179 Contributing Member

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    I did not forget about him. Francis is a lifelong Rocket but I did not include him because he was not a draft day move or a move that was in the works on draft day. He was traded for weeks after the draft. It's kind of a grey area I know so if you count him as a draft pick then I don't really see that much of a problem with it but I don't consider him a draft pick but more of a personel move.
     
  15. crash5179

    crash5179 Contributing Member

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    How many play-off games have we played since the Dream era ended? And I don't know that we fleeced the Grizzlies because I am one that considers Francis very overrated. Bottom line is that in June we are in the same boat as the Clippers, Grizzlies etc...That boat is the lottery boat.
     
  16. crash5179

    crash5179 Contributing Member

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    Man I love the Rockets and watch every game. I want to be able to gloat about every player and every move this team makes but looking at the record over the last ten years and I don't think I am nit picking. I think that there is a very real and scary trend here.
     
  17. Stylez

    Stylez Member

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    How tired is this? EVERY team has made questionable decesions.

    1. EVERY team passed on Rashard Lewis and 9 teams passed on Paul Pierce
    2. Kwame Brown was a #1 pick in a draft
    3. Etan Thomas #6, Darius Miles#3, Olawikandi,#1, S.Swift#2 Diop#8, Tskitishvili #5, JBender #5, The GM GOD West drafting Gooden #4 and trading him halfway through his rookie season, the list goes on and on.
    4. Yao Ming, Steve Francis for a bag of beans, Cuttino in the 2nd round.
    5. Drafting Horry when everyone wanted Harold "Baby Jordan" Minor, and Cassell in the 2nd round
    5. Hakeem, and trading Thorpe for Drexler

    We've screwed up but so has everyone else. Believe it or not, our organization is in better shape than most teams in the NBA.
     
  18. derrock

    derrock Contributing Member

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    Crash, I think you will agree with me that this team has underachieved over the last few years. My argument is that the Rockets have fielded a competitive team over the last decade. We have hope at the start of every year. Could you say the same thing about the Clippers, Warriors, and Grizzlies?? I too think management should be accountable for some of their personel moves and I don't think you can accept a win some/lose some in that department. But, in terms of being in the lottery boat, that has more often been the fault of the players and coaches.

    Also, the Grizzlies did get fleeced, even if you don't like Francis. Dickerson, Price, and Carr are all out of the NBA and Othella is on his way out.
     
  19. playahata

    playahata Member

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    All of these bad feelings about personnel started after the blockbuster deal in 1996. The Barkley Trade and the Brent Price and Willis signing...that was the year the Rockets were supposed to do it. The late 90's were spent trying to fill in pieces with Hakeem and Barkley (oh yeah...and Drexler). I only consider 4 years so far of rebuilding and the only really bad moves I see were Moochie's contract, drafting Drew,etc. (I liked Dickerson) instead of Rashard Lewis. The Eddie Griffin deal was huge, I thought it was a real coup...who knew he'd fizzle.
     
  20. Rocket104

    Rocket104 Contributing Member

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    The second round is always a crap shoot... especially where the Rox were picking during the mid/late-90's.

    The one year that does stand out is 1998. Admittedly, after the Lewis debacle I wouldn't have blamed Les Alexander if he fired CD then.

    Also, your analysis doesn't really take into account the personnel moves. The drafts haven't turned out the best, but you do have the Drexler trade (yes, a long time ago), the Barkley trade (yes, a long time ago, but it did get us past the Sonics nemesis), and Pippen (I can't think of one person *at the time* who thought it was a bad move).

    All of these were a long time ago. I know. I also think you could put the Hakeem to Toronto debacle as a big negative. I'd agree.

    Oh well - hindsight is 20/20.
     

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