From my years living overseas and traveling throughout the world, I found so many vastly different reasons for different cultures hating America that I'm almost willing to chalk a lot of it up to a jealousy of our way of life that just does not exist in other countries. One of the most common criticism's of Americans I heard from other cultures was our people are very arrogant, very uncultured, very unworldly, and over all on average too ignorant to deserve the lifestyle we have. I also noticed that the reasons some of the same people gave me for their dislike of America changed on a daily basis so it really did seem like we were playing the role of the Lakers like the thread starter said in the manner that these people aren't even sure why they hate America themselves (same goes for Cowboys, Yankees, etc.). They just know that they do and allow their bitterness to manfest itself in whatever aspect of our culture (or lack there of accoding to many) is currently on the table for discussion at the time much like a Rockets fan saying Phil Jackson is a bad coach and that he just got lucky winning those rings (all 10 of them were luck eh?).
This should definitely be moved to D&D. If I thought that eating McDonalds and drinking Coke was being "Americanized", then I wouldn't do it. I'm sure the CEO's of these companies would agree with me. The reason I eat McDonald's is... Well, I don't. I don't drink Coke either. I drink Pepsi and eat Burger King, but that's only because they suit my taste. I like the flavor that Pepsi and a Big Whopper offers. I think at this point in time (2004), people are becoming more Europeanized than Americanized.
Caution: This should be in the D&D. It is very boring and not basketball related. I’ve been to Europe quite a bit and the number one thing has that surprised me is how many people speak English. English is taught in many European schools. In fact, it’s really hard to find someone that doesn’t speak a little English, and please don’t say that it’s because of great influence of the United Kingdom. How many people do you know that speak French, German, or Greek? With the exception of cab drivers, most people in America speak one language. Unfortunately, most people get their information about a culture based on what they have seen on TV. Hollywood is all over Europe. Walk through a train station and you will see a billboard with the next Terminator movie on it. Drive down the highway and you will see a billboard with the Friends cast. Ask a teenager what his favorite TV station is and they will say MTV. Yes, even are bad taste is spreading. But please, tell me what great Italian movie you saw lately. With the exception of Japan, no other country in the world markets their products throughout the world as aggressive as we do. When you are constantly bombarding the world with commercials that tell you what to think and what to buy, you will have influence on their culture. A lot of our successful products have become everyday staples throughout the world (Heinz, Coca-Cola, Kellogg’s). Go to the grocery store and try to find a product from another country. You will most likely find them in a small area called the international or gourmet area.
I do not think the situations are comparble between the Lakers' in the NBA and the country's in the world. The USA is hated by many (I do not think we are hated by the majority as the original poster implied though) because we are the only superpower in the world. The Lakers is hated by many because the Lakers have beat their teams so many times. Please note, the Lakers have never been the only elite team in the NBA, even in the year they went 15-1 in the playoffs, many "experts" did not think the Lakers would win it all. The USA is hated because we bully lesser countries sometimes. The Lakers have never "bully" any other teams. The Lakers do business within the rules while the USA set the RULES!! The USA is hated becasue we think that the USA's interests take the number 1 priority even though they may conflict with many other's political, economical or religious interets. The Lakers however is a sport entity that deals with other sport teams. The conflict is under the supervision of the NBA. The owners have the same interests. Oh, well, I run out of time. To many things are involved in the crazy world while basketball is just a game.
It's mass vs class, in a way. Lakers, Coke, McD are brands and symbols of American mass culture. Having lived and/or worked in NY, LA and Bay Area, I could not help but notice that most of the "upper income" families go out of their way to avoid mass American consumerism. My observation is limited to friends, colleagues and business associates in finance and high tech industries. My SO is a realtor and she has seen or visited many of the best homes in NY, Boston and Bay Area and she concurs. Most of these families are not recent immigrants either. Perhaps Texas is different. Some examples of how the rich are different from us They go for plays, symphonies and operas rather than movies. They watch a lot of French/Japanese/Chinese films too. The stereo systems and TVs are mostly Japanese(Sony, Alpine, Nakamichi) or European(Blaupunkt, Bang and Olafson). They collect real paintings(mostly European, some Asian), not rock/movie/sports star posters or limited edition prints. They drink French wine(Bordeaux, Burgundy), Scotch, Champagne(French, not Californian), Cognac, tea from China and India. Even the bottled water is more often Evian than Arrowhead. They go to vacation in Europe(France, Italy, Greece, Britain), Asia (China, Japan) and (pre 911) Egypt, Turkey. They drive imports - Benz/Porsche/BMW, Ferrari/Lamborghini, Jaguar/Rover, even Lexus. They hire European and Asian architects, decorators and gardeners to build and maintain their houses and gardens. They decorate with furniture from Europe(English, Italian, French) and Asia(China, Japan). Even the bathroom fixtures and refrigerators usually come from Germany! The children speak one or more foreign languages(French, Spanish, Japanese, Chinese). Their children play with Nintendo/Sony game consoles. So, does it mean that they are not American? or un-American? I don't think so. They do drink Coke or watch Hollywood films and go to ball games. They are just ahead of most people. At the same time that the world is becoming more Americanized, we are also becoming more Internationalized. The NBA has been attracting more international players than before. The Lakers has only Rick Fox, but most of the top teams in the West has more than one foreign-born player.
I just think it is natural to have some negative feelings toward authority figures. Nobody likes being told what to do. Charlie Chaplin made a comedic career out of this notion. The Lakers were the Lakers before Kobe and Shaq. There was the original Showtime Lakers. They invented this stuff. It was also great to beat them in '86. But that's what made the 94 & 95 Championships so great, we were underdogs that nobody cared about. There was a real connection between those teams and this city. We kept it "real". It will never be repeated.
For my money, Sishir Chang, this thread is by leaps and bounds more interesting than the endless "Francis Sux! Throw Him Out with the Bathwater" threads. It's an apt analogy, and I agree that the Yankees also fit this bill (probably better, as there is no salary cap, and their moniker is more representative as a slur for Americans). I do understand that most people use sports as a prism to escape from thinking about, say, American foreign policy, and I think that explains much of the hostility to your subject. Nevertheless, I appreciate the effort. Regarding the Lakers, I think the Kobe analysis, his lawyers' blatant attempts to publicly harass the [alleged] rape victim (as they simultaneously serve motions to throw out his shirt stained with her blood) is most apropos, akin to the American invasion of Iraq and our government's shifting justifications for it over the past year. (I never touched her... Well, it was consensual sex / He has nukes that will be fired at us any second... Well, he was a very very mean man.) But still, look at the polls (both support of Kobe in La La land and support for the Iraqi invasion): when things are going well, forget the indiscretions, everybody loves a winner. But when they start losing... However, the notion that the Lakers got Malone and Payton on the cheap is inconsistent with America's current standing in the world. Remember, we had to bribe exorbitantly other countries to join the 'Coalition of the Willing.' And the ones that did join, Britain excepted, aren't exactly Hall-of-Famers. My only question: When will we find the WMD that that Colorado woman is hiding? This doesn't mean that American products are superior, just that they've been marketed by corporate juggernauts. The best example I can think of: as US sales flagged, American advertisements, bought with federal subsidies, convinced many in the third world that baby formula was better/more nutritional than breastmilk (a blatant lie). Thus, the indigent often went without food so that they could purchase the immunity-deficient formula for their children. Go USA! Look at the products you mentioned: ketchup, Coca-Cola, Cocoa Puffs. All filled with teeth-rotting sugar, all with little to no nutritional value. This does not represent some inherent American greatness in manufacturing, just its ability to pander to sweet tooths. The same, for the most part, with Hollywood's success overseas. As you mention "are bad taste" is spreading. Action tripe and car chases are marketable worldwide; they only have to translate Schwarzenegger's grunts for five or ten lines a movie. You seem to be saying something along these lines, but then you say: The Lakers just won, and I don't mean to come off entirely as an elitist, so please don't take this personally, but I really hope you're joking. This is a caricature of the ignorant American. Great Italian movies? Uh, the neorealist movement? Off the top of my head: the works of Fellini, De Sica, Antonioni, Bertolucci... I know I'm leaving many out. Go rent The Bicycle Thief, La Strada, Umberto D. or L'Avventura and tell me they're not any good. Even if you don't appreciate cinema: if you like horror, check out Dario Argento. His work is not 'Oh no it's Freddy, yea! it's just a cat' American horror; it's genuinely disturbing stuff (you won't need subtitles). If you like Westerns, check out those of Leone and the 'spaghetti' variety: you've probably already seen the ones he made with Eastwood: Fistful of Dollars, For a Few Dollars More, The Good, The Bad & The Ugly. Or go watch any of Martin Scorsese: Mean Streets, Taxi Driver, Raging Bull, Goodfellas, Casino, Bringing Out the Dead. He's Italian-American, sure, but he cites as his major influences his Italian predecessors. He made a documentary in the past two or three years highlighting classic Italian cinema. The name escapes me. Wait: according to IMDB, it's called Il Mio viaggio in Italia or My Voyage to Italy. You mention that most Europeans are multilingual and we largely speak only English. This is reflective more of our own ignorance and insular nature than any cultural superiority. Although you dismiss the idea, it also represents the great influence the subjugation of much of the world by the British Empire ('Sun never sets...') has had, transitioning also to the rise of our own might, both militarily and in foreign investment. Americans' refusal to learn other tongues and our slothful avoidance of subtitles does not somehow diminish the quality of foreign film; it just means we as a culture are lazy and smug. If you mean lately as in the last decade lately, sure, Italian cinema is no longer in its heyday, but to say that there are no great Italian filmmakers is erroneous. Fellini may be gone, but Antonioni and Bertolucci are still cranking them out (Bertolucci just released "The Dreamers" a few months ago, though I have yet to see it). The guy who did Cinema Paradiso has won much acclaim, and he's still relatively young and productive. And if you can dislike any film that involves director/actress Asia Argento (Dario's daughter), I not only question you as an aesthete, sir, I question whether you are as red-blooded an American as you claim. (and this is the least objectionable one I could find...)
Aghast, I don’t think our products are better, especially the products that come out of Hollywood. What I’m trying to say, is that the idea that everyone in the world hates America is not true. A lot of people in the world say that they don’t like America because it’s the popular thing to say. How can you say you hate something that you’re trying to emulate? I’m just commenting on what I’ve observed, not by what I’ve been told by our media. We have influenced the world more than any other country. Sane had brought up the comment that we were becoming more Europeanized and I just don’t see that as being true. Iwong mentioned some excellent product from other countries. These are things that I wish I had, they are some of the best things the world has to offer, but they don’t reflect the influence over the masses. 15 years ago you could spot the American tourist by observing his white sneakers and his jeans. Nowadays, you can’t find a teenager in Europe that does not own both of these. If they hate us why are they trying to dress like us? Even the thing that you’re using rights now (the Internet). Was an American invention, which became a fad in America, and has now become popular all over the world. Again, How can you say you hate something that you’re trying to emulate?
You bring up a great point and I'm mainly talking about perceptions, the perceptions that the Lakers are powerful, arrogant and crass and the perception that many around the World have of America being powerful, arrogant and crass. That's why I personally can't stand the Lakers and seems to be why many people in other countries don't like us. Those are perceptions and there's certainly a lot more to Shaq than my perception of him and a lot more to America than those perceptions. Speaking of Shaq I agree that he's done a lot of good things and I certainly don't think he's an evil person. One of the things that I really admire about him is that even after he went to the NBA and was making tons of money and fame he still went back and got his degree from LSU in a few years and even walked in the LSU graduation ceremony. To me that shows a real commitment to education for the sake of education because its not like Shaq will make less if he gets his degree or not. I think Shaq has a good heart but he's not the smartest person out there and he is very immature. I just watched the Ahmad Rashad interview with him and I still can't believe how arrogant, disrespectful and plain wrong he can be such as by flat out saying that no one has been that tough for him because no one has played him one on one. Of course no one has played him one on one its a team sport but even besides that obvious point its disrespectful for the great centers and post players like Dream he has played and who have made him better for competing against them.
Off the court Rick Fox is about as metro as it gets but on the court he has a reputation for hard fouls and being an enforcer on the court. Look back at some the Laker/Kings series and you'll see how many times he clobbers Stoyakovic or some other King.
It's easy to root for the Lakers. But the thing that kills me that their fans are so....dispassionate. They're a bore.
Actually, this is totally incorrect. The push of baby formula on the third world was spearheaded by Nestle, the world's largest supplier of baby formula. Nestle pushed their formula on third world countries, especially in Africa, often providing thousands of cases for free. This built a dependency on some indiginous tribes to formula...it also backfired when many children did not get the immunities that they needed from their mother's milk. The mortality rates of infants in many of these countries actually rose because of this. The company that quietly covered up their snafu....Nestle....who just happens to be the world's largest food company... is NOT an American company...but a Swiss company. So while you can blame bunches of crud on America...send this one back over to Europe...and strangely enough...to the Swiss.
I think you and I are basically on the same wavelength, but you seem to require an absolutism in viewing cultural affairs that I avoid. I write in countless notebooks and do my checking with a calculator, but I in no way hold blameless the cultures that produced papyrus and the abacus. Bluejeans and sneakers (those not made by Malaysian infants, that is) cannot in themselves be construed as bad things. The export of the Hollywood ideal of beauty has, on the other hand, probably increased worldwide the cases of bulimia and decreased self-worth. I think the distinction being made in this thread is between the Lakers/Hollywood/US government hubris and basketball/USA itself, if I can stretch the analogy this far. Shaq fouls every time down the court, yet I still consider him a great basketball player; Kobe is a would-be rapist, yet I admit he's got a killer jumpshot. Similarly, the current US government's foreign policy has done demonstrable harm to countless citizens of the world, but that does not mean that I consider US ideals of governing to be in the wrong. In that way, I think an Iraqi citizen has every right to bitterly complain when a jittery PFC guns down his wife and kids, even if he uses email to do so. If you're going to call me out, please first do at least a cursory bit of research. (I'll often deserve to be called out, and my head is filled only with cursory bits of research.) You're absolutely right that Nestle is the worst offender, but it is not the only culprit, and American companies are hardly blameless. American Home Products, US Foods & Pharmaceuticals, and AHP subsidiary Wyeth are/were also doing the exact same thing in their third world marketing strategies, but on a slightly smaller scale than Nestle. (I'd like to think Nestle's lead in deceiving the poor to increase its profits is a result of the principles of American corporations, but more likely it's just a reflection of Nestle's former monopoly on international market share.) (I doubt that these three companies are the only ones from the US who participate(/d) in this abhorable practice, but I'm not going to spend more than the perusal of the first Google page in defending myself.) Overall, such marketing practices led to public outcry, a 1977 Nestle boycott, UNICEF condemnation and a (largely unenforceable) set of guidelines for marketing baby formula. Interestingly, the US is the only one who voted against those guidelines. These practices appear to continue to this day; it just went back under the radar. As to my charge that the US government helped subsidize such foreign advertisement, I remember seeing it in a documentary on the subject of government subsidy of already-wealthy US corporations' forays into foreign markets. If I remember correctly, a US company was attempting to artificially create a bottle-feeding market in the Phillipines, and part of their spurious advertising funding was derived from US government aid. Unfortunately, I cannot remember the title of this program nor quickly find reference to it, and I cannot now afford to spend more than ten minutes looking it up. If you're not willing to take my word on it, I will gladly withdraw this claim temporarily until I can investigate further.
