Was hoping someone could provide some insight into how Jimy handled veteran pitchers in Boston. Did he manage Roger at all?? Reason I am asking is, I am wondering if he will continue to have a short leash with Roger and Andy, like he did with Roy, Miller and Redding. If lets Roger and Andy stay in and work through a bad inning, will O and Whitey become resentful??? Will Jimy just suck it up and let all his starters work late into games?? How do yall think all this will play out??
If you look at last year, Jimy DID NOT have a short leash with Roy and Wade... in fact, there were times I expected him to take them out (especially Roy), but he let them pitch on. Jimy's not an idiot... aside from ONE bad decision in 2002 of Oswalt, he's pretty much left the studs in when they've been rolling, or we accumulated a big lead. On the other hand, he has bad luck w/ handling inconsistent guys like Villone, Robertson, and Redding... its almost like if they're dominating, he's already calculating the increasing probability of them screwing up, based on their past history and current ERA's. He won't have to do that w/ the established guys because they have the track record and moxy to go deep in games... something the Villone's and Robertson's of the world did not have.
Nick, The log says differently. 15 times last year, Miller was removed from the game before the 7th inning after allowing 3 ERs or less. Oswalt had a lil longer leash, being removed from the game in 6 starts (no counting his starts where he was pulled due to injury). I agree that Jimy may treat Pettite and Clemens differently. I think he has to. But I think its more than fair to say that Jimy's natural inclination is to pull his starter after the 6th inning in favor of the bullpen.
Agreed... and I can tell you that in most of those games, Miller probably had either a.) a high pitch count, b.) the 'Stros were blowing out the other team, or c.) a combination of a high pitch count and a close game... that caused Jimy to be forced into a PH situation. Its not like Jimy just sees the 7th inning and naturally wants to make a change... it ALWAYS depends on the flow of the game, and who's pitching... Miller was so inconsistent last year, that he'd often run up those pitch counts in one bad inning. Plus there was the fact that his body suffered from much fatigue throughout the year. Granted, I agree with you when I say that I do see him taking a more laid-back approach to Roger and Andy because he KNOWS they've got the stuff to get out of jams. He does trust Oswalt some, and Miller a little less... but if you plan on him trusting a 2-bit starter like J-Rob or Villone, forget about it. That's my biggest complaint w/ Jimy... he can't handle the guys who haven't made a name for themselves... but need that extra trust to possibly take the next step.
Nick, Here are his pitch counts in those 15 games: 95 100 91 15 96 88 85 101 91 111 109 111 101 115 78 I understand the pitch counts of 110-115 (3 starts). But the rest, I feel he could have held up one more inning. I have no problem with having Redding or JRob on a short leash, but I think Miller has proven himself to be a pretty darn good starter the last 4 years and deserves to be left in a lil longer.
Damn Cod... you're just full of stats today, aren't you? Want to look up some more... what were the scores of the games where he had sub-100 pitch counts, and was he due up to bat the next inning in the close ones? Miller is a pretty darn good pitcher, but he did 'underachieve' last year, based on previous year's expectations. Maybe Jimy knew something about his arm that we didn't... or maybe those early season terrible performances left a bad taste in Jimy's mouth. Regardless, I'm not saying every move Jimy makes is right... but he will give the proven guys a little more leeway, provided the pitch count and game score allow it. IMO, his best assets as a manager are: 1.) managing the bullpen, 2.) instilling a vast amount of baseball knowledge when it comes to positioning players on defense, 3.) getting guys to play fundamental (ie, not letting the Astros beat themselves). I also feel his true managerial skills wouldn't be appreciated till we made a playoffs series... I mean, this IS why we got him in the first place (Larry held his own just fine during the regular season).
I'd also be interested in seeing when the runs (not just earned) in those games were scored. If he pitched 5 shutout innings and let up 3 in an inning or two, it's not surprising he would be pulled. I'm not saying Jimy doesn't have a short leash, but I think the context of the runs let up is more important than the total number.
Hopefully, Williams will not be as quick to use the bullpen since Wagner is gone. He loved to use Lidge, Dotel, and Wagner to pitch the last three. With Wagner gone, hopefully he'll let the starter go through the 7th at least, then go with Lidge and Dotel.
Codell: Williams played too many hunches. He drove everyone crazy, in the clubhouse and in the papers. He'd (oddly like Grady Little) leave a pitcher in well after they were gassed... and on other days, he'd yank them in the 6th when they still had their stuff. Don't look for a rational pattern. There isn't one. Williams is an old-fashioned baseball man who tries to outsmart the statistics and laws or probability. When it works, people right articles about how human intuition triumphs over the boring computer approach. Of course, when it doesn't work (most of the time)... your average John Q. Chronicle writer doesn't say much. Doesn't look like as much of a story. But when it adds up to failure over the course of a few seasons... the blame finally gets put where it belongs.
In the end, Jimy Williams did not cost us the post-season last year. In fact, his handling of the bullpen (a HUGE question mark coming into the season) was probably what kept us in it for so long. I blame last year on Roy and Kent's injuries, and not enough talent on starting pitching. Injuries, we can't control... but talent wise, this team is much much better. Something to take note of - Jimy's teams have NEVER had the talent that Dierker's teams had... Dierker's starting pitching: Healthy Roy, Wade, Reynolds, Hampton, Good Lima, Randy Johnson, Daryle Kile, Dotel (01), Wagner, Elarton (98-2000). Dierker's hitters: HOF Biggio, HOF Bagwell, All-star Alou, All-star C. Everett, All-star Hidalgo, All-star Berkman, Ausmus. Williams' starting pitching: Injured Roy, injured Wade, injured Reynolds, Saarloos, J. Robertson, Tim Redding, Dotel, Wagner, Lidge, Moehler(?!?), R. Villone. Williams' hitters: Average Biggio, all-star Bagwell, all-star Berkman, all-star Kent, average Hidalgo, below-average Ausmus, A. Everett. As you can see, Jimy's teams have done OK, given the lack of HOF starting pitching and hitting that Dierker had at some time or another. However, barring injuries, this would have been a 90-win team last year. That's pretty damn good, given the talent. Now, we'll see if he can take a team that has more talent than he's ever coached... and turn them into the contenders we all know they can be.
The portion in bold concerned me (yes, I realize its not set in stone, but the mere insinuation concerns me): Jimy the Hook turns focus to pen By DALE ROBERTSON Copyright 2004 Houston Chronicle WHEN Roger Clemens strode regally onto the field at Minute Maid Park on Monday afternoon, wearing a familiar-looking ball cap that his kids had -- hint, hint -- presented to him for Christmas, the largest epidemic of goose bumps in history instantaneously broke out across Greater Houston. That's right. Go ahead and pinch every last one of us because there he was, the legendary, incomparable, one-and-only Rocket himself, the Hall-of-Fame-bound superstar homeboy wearing the open star of the long-thwarted home team. Never in one's wildest imagination ... then, suddenly, a flash of panic. Oh no! Don't the Astros' now have too much pitching? It's our deeply ingrained nature to fret, to assume the worst actually, when it comes to the fortunes of our oft-thwarted sporting enterprises. While the Rockets -- plural -- briefly changed our collectively wary mindset with their two championships, the memories of same fade as the years pass and the lottery seasons multiply. But maybe Rocket -- singular -- can get our heads right again, lifting the fog of doubt that tempers our expectations. Of course, everybody knows you can't have too much pitching. It's impossible, philosophically or mathematically. You can have too much money, sex or chocolate and maybe even too much world peace, but you can never have too much pitching. Still ... what if the Astros have too much of the wrong kind of pitching? I mean, what about their bullpen? Remember, Jimy Williams is still the manager. And Billy Wagner is still gone. Clemens and his best buddy Andy Pettitte, plucked from the Bronx in the most remarkable turnaround offseason any of the local franchises have ever had, give the Astros starting pitching to live, die or kill for -- take your pick. The combined 62 victories that the two ex-Yankees plus Wade Miller and Roy Oswalt posted last season would have been exceeded only by the 64 wins for Seattle's top four starters. Such is the embarrassment of rotation riches the Astros now possess that a 15-game winner, Jeriome Robertson, should already be apartment hunting in New Orleans. But until we're certain Octavio Dotel can close with Wagner's fearless consistency, Brad Lidge can keep things orderly for Dotel and somebody else can safely transfer the baseball from the starter to Lidge when necessary, the Astros had best hold off hiring a designer for their 2004 World Series rings. Clemens will inspire and energize his new teammates, and he'll sell a whole bunch of tickets, enough to cover his $5 million gratuity many times over. But at 41, with Jimy the Hook lurking in the dugout, he doesn't figure to pitch much beyond the fifth inning too often, and things can unravel pretty quickly from there. The consummate competitor, Rocket will give his absolute all to ensure the Astros receive a quality start every time he pitches. Alas, he won't give them many quality finishes unless he decides to try his hand at closing, which, come to think of it, is an intriguing Plan B. Let's shelve the notion for the moment, though. Out of respect to his towering accomplishments over two decades as a starter, the idea would have to originate with Roger, no one else. Further, you don't want to send conflicting messages to Dotel. The bullpen will linger as a gravely serious issue until we see a pattern of positive results. The outcome of one-third to one-half of Clemens' starts could hinge on what happens after Roger takes his leave. Pettitte won't pitch many complete games, either. As reality TV reminded us, you are only as strong as your weakest link. In the Astros' case, if the pen falls short, they won't get out of jail. Adding Clemens and Pettitte to the rotation creates gridlock at the bottom end. That could prove good or bad with newcomer Brandon Duckworth, the enigmatic Tim Redding, the healing Carlos Hernandez and Robertson all being viable contenders for the No. 5 spot when spring training begins. Duckworth, seeking a fresh start, found refuge with the Astros after pitching miserably in Philadelphia, where Larry Bowa drove him bananas. He's fragile. Redding, who wrestles with the demons of unfulfilled potential despite his Roy Oswalt-caliber stuff, is too. Both could be the bullpen's missing link(s), but they're hardly thinking that way today. A before-the-fact demotion for either could be emotionally ruinous. They need to know they're competing for a starting job. As for Hernandez, he showed serious star potential until the crafty little lefty messed up his shoulder running the bases like the fool kid he was. He seemed fully recovered in winter ball, but, considering he won't turn 24 until after the season starts and because of the concerns regarding the easily bruised psyches of Duckworth and Redding, Hernandez goes to Florida needing to prove he's head-and-healthy-shoulders superior. If he succeeds, there will be no room in the rotation for Duckworth, Redding and Robertson. The latter's lack of velocity makes him ill-suited for anything except mop-up relief duty and, besides, the Astros must have a reliable starter or two staying warm in Triple-A, because call-ups are inevitable. Duckworth and Redding could make the pen suitably Jimy-friendly if they maintain the right attitude. Unfortunately, attitude has been an issue for both. So, yes, the addition of Clemens is a complication. But, just a guess here, the Astros will find a way to make it work. See, our attitude is already adjusting.
Codell, that's not a serious article, its a humorous Dale Robertson column. He was just making light of Jimy Williams' tendency to pull starters. It's not like he had a source tell him that, because if he did, it would be in a serious piece as well, because of the importance and nature of the news and the excitement around the Astros currently. The guy was just joking around. It's more than likely nothing to worry about. The Rocket still has plenty of fuel in the tank, and Williams for once in his career has 4 legit starters he can trust. He didn't have it here before, and definitely not in Boston, so hopefully he manages differently because of it.
Yeah, I'd like to hear a direct quote from either Clemens, Williams, Hunsicker or McLane regarding Robertson's hunch.
I'd love to hear someone explain why a guy who averaged 6.4 IP per start would need his workload cut that drastically. Is 41 that different from 40? Barring the great unknown - injury - I'd expect more of the same this season. On the Redding/Duckworth "emotional fragility" thing re: moving them to the pen, both guys have stated that they enjoy relief work, easier on them mentally than being starters. And then he ends the article with his little "but the Astros will figure it all out and everything will be ok" thing. Dale is not a very good sportswriter.
I definitely agree with you on Robertson not being a good sports writer. He tried to go over the top with this column, and it failed miserably, as is par for the course for him. I can only hope when I start my sports writing career that I am world's better than him, and can write for the Chronicle someday. Not to brag(yeah right, an ego is something goes with the territory in journalism) but I think I will be able to accomplish those goals, I must admit.
Go for it. You're already a better writer than most of the chimps at the Chron. Hell, if it was up to me, you could have John Lopez's job today.
I think with Lidge/ Dotel/ Wagner last year, Jimy had to go with his "sure thing" 99% of the time. It's like having the victory locked up in his mind... Although that might have hurt our relievers late last year, he felt it had to be done to secure every victory. However, that luxury is gone unless Duckworth/ Robertson/.. or someone proves to be a Brad Lidge of 2004.... until that, I'm looking for Jimy to let the SPs pitch at least an inning longer.. assuming Lidge is how he was at the beginning of last year!
