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The Jalen Green Experiment is Over

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by atam, Oct 20, 2021.

  1. Dobbizzle

    Dobbizzle Member

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    And that doesn't even factor in how many of his touches have been late-clock desperation passes once the offense has already failed. When he gets a fair crack at it he plays just fine. All these morons who've already called him a bust are going to look so so stupid.
     
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  2. Downtown Sniper

    Downtown Sniper Contributing Member

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    I wonder if they'll look as stupid as those people who said he's a superstar already before playing an NBA game. lulz.

    But have you noticed how many times Green has also passed the ball up as the shot clock dwindles putting a teammate in an even worse situation? (hint: it's more than once)
     
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  3. j@amc

    j@amc Member

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    Green does have so much to work on. Not sure if his teammates were freezing him out, but he did give up multiple straight-line drives in the 1st quarter to Dort (which catapulted him to a near career-high). Even if you're not strong, you can play with extra effort and stay in front of the ball.

    On the positive side, Green played 36 minutes with 1 turnover.
     
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  4. Hemingway

    Hemingway Member

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    Green is showing some improvement on offense. His defense is horrible and he shows no sign of improving. He did have some lapses of effort on the defensive side this game, maybe because he was tired of being roughed up by Dort.
     
  5. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    The Harden special at least for a few seasons. Honestly I see the reverse of that more were Green is forced to hoist up a bad shot from a broken play. Green honestly doesn't hold onto the ball that much.
     
  6. cmoak1982

    cmoak1982 Member
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    He has plenty of usage. Plenty of MPG. Plenty of FGA
     
  7. flamingdts

    flamingdts Member

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    If you want to use USG%, Sengun averages the 3rd most on this team. Is he being utilized correctly?

    If FGA is a proper measure of how involved a player is on offense, then Joe Harris is more involved in the Net's offense than Draymond Green is with the Warriors.
     
  8. cmoak1982

    cmoak1982 Member
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    FGA is a direct measure of opportunities to showcase talent.
    Harris is a shooter, Draymond is not.

    Jalen is a traditional off ball guard with some burgeoning playmaking skills, but doesn’t have the requisite dribbling capability to be a primary guard. His high side is Beal type player. Which is great, score. That doesn’t mean more touches or usage. Those numbers apply to lead guards.
    If you look up his time of possession averages you would see he’s comparable to the top “point guards” in the class and more than Barnes and a few other rookies that are clearly better than him right now.

    Jalen is being showcased. Period. I have no problem with that either. But let’s not act like he hasn’t been given the opportunities.
     
  9. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Why would you compare time of possession between a guard and a big man like Barnes? A guard is naturally going to have more possession time because they do things like bring the ball up the court.
     
  10. cmoak1982

    cmoak1982 Member
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    Because he compared him to Barnes in terms of touches.
     
  11. cmoak1982

    cmoak1982 Member
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    And, Green brings the ball up court how many times a game? Maybe 20%
    Have you watched Barnes play?
     
  12. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Which is more relevant if you are going to compare the involvement of a big man vs guard.
     
  13. cmoak1982

    cmoak1982 Member
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    Barnes is not a big man
     
  14. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    He is used more as the roll man of a pnr play than the ball handler. The roll man will naturally have less possession time as it's their job to get the ball from the roll and make a quick move. He gets feed by his guards more. Green relative to Barnes is creating his own shot attempts more.
     
  15. cmoak1982

    cmoak1982 Member
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    Yeah, you haven’t watched Toronto play
     
  16. kingkingston

    kingkingston Member

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    i have seen some of the greats shoot it like that
     
  17. kingkingston

    kingkingston Member

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    No, people want a 28ppg superstar now damn it...............................half the people here are not going to be patient
     
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  18. flamingdts

    flamingdts Member

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    Plays ran for a player, touches are all far higher measures of how a player is showcased. FGA only showcases whether you made a shot.

    Then here is where we disagree, Jalen Green runs pick and rolls better than KPJ, or at the very least he already understands the concept of keeping his dribble alive. No he doesn't have spectacular dribbling skills yet, but I'm not going to pinhole him into a specific type of player until he has had adequate opportunities in that respective area.

    If you are to use time of possession, Sengun is higher than his respective peers at similar possession (higher than Mobley or Wagner for example). Time of possession literally means how long they have the ball for, not whether plays are ran for them or them being involved in a play. Green can stand in the corner for 4 consecutive possessions, then dribble the ball for 15 seconds, and his time of possession would be higher than another player who touched the ball every possession.
     
  19. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

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    Had to check what the actual tracking numbers were for very late and late in the shot clock shooting.

    After last night….

    Houston averages 7.7 shots per game with 0-4 seconds left on the shot clock. 13th fewest in the league. 37.5% EFG on those shots, 19th in the league.

    Broken down by player shots per game
    KPJ : 1.6 (39.1% EFG)
    Wood : 1.0 (56.7% EFG)
    Theiss 1.0 (46.2% EFG)
    Green : 0.8 (37.5% EFG)
    Tate : 0.8 (25.0% EFG)
    Sengun : 0.8 (27.3% EFG)
    Gordon : 0.6 (14.3% EFG)

    Houston averages 6.2 shots per game with 4-7 seconds left on the shot clock. 2nd fewest in the league. 56% EFG on those shots, 3rd in the league.

    Broken down by player
    Wood : 1.1(56.0% EFG)
    Green : 1.0 (60.0% EFG)
    Tate : 0.9 (53.6% EFG)
    Sengun : 0.9 (33.3% EFG)
    Gordon : 0.7 (37.5% EFG)
    Porter : 0.6 (68.8% EFG)
     
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  20. cmoak1982

    cmoak1982 Member
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    Yes we will disagree on whether Green can play a lead guard role. Right now he has some vision and some playmaking, in small spurts.
    The “offense” is designed around Green getting his shots, just because they aren’t traditional set plays doesn’t mean he isn’t getting his looks.
    Sengun should have more TOP as he’s a point center/facilitator type player. This is why he should get more touches
     

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