You failing to see the comparison is stupid and embarrassing. Just stop digging the hole you put yourself in kid.
I admit I got way too down on Green way too early Probably because I'm still having a hard time letting go of Mobley ... but my therapist and I are working on that As you say, the team as a whole has been disappointing, and as our anointed centerpiece of the rebuild, I think Green unfairly takes the brunt of the fan vitriol As this season has moved along, my vitriol has been transferred to the decision makers who are supposed to be managing player and team development Given the directionless overall vision of the organization, and baffling decisions regarding playing time, rotations, scheme, effort, accountability, etc ... I have come around to the opinion of others here who've been stating all along that no matter who is on the roster, the culture of the team from the top down makes it impossible to fairly evaluate individual players Sad state of affairs for one of the most consistently competitive teams in the league over the past 3 decades
I think the scouting was pretty accurate with him but the hype was the problem. He has the superstar look and the social media following, but I think everyone saw he lacked handles, physicality, and had an inconsistent outside shot. He's extremely athletic and can get by his man due to his athleticism, but struggles creating due to his lack of handles. On the bright side he's humble, has an excellent work ethic, and seems to be very coachable. He also has a knack for getting to the line. On the other side I don't know what kind of coaching he's getting from this organization. I know he's a rookie, but he looks lost out there too often and too reliant on our non-existent point guards. I don't have a problem with taking him #2 because I think the raw talent is there for him to be a very good player. Also, anyone thinking he was going to be Kobe was just delusional and never watched Green in HS. Completely different players. My problem is with the direction of his development. He has shown minimal improvement in his ball handling from HS to first year NBA. His shooting is inconsistent, but I'm still hopeful with that coming around. He's still too weak, but I'm confident he is committed to adding muscle (Giannis supplements please!). However, his ball handling to me is far and away the biggest weakness that limits him.
Boy, I couldn’t have said it better. I also went from "mmmmmhhmm, not sure this Jalen dude is The Guy" to "Holy crap, forget about Jalen, this whole org. is a total dumpster fire!"
What???Why?? Why would anyone count more on a #30 pick that was given away for free than a #2 super hyped-up pick? Jalen Green makes what? … 4-5x more money than KPJ, but you expect more from Scoot? That’s not how things work. Scoot showed some intrigue last year and I was curious to see how he develops further playing behind Wall… When they sat Wall and gave KPJ the keys, I was like,… oh boy, this is going to be horrible. If anything, KPJ has exceeded my expectations. He’s giving effort on D (which he didn’t last year), showing some cajones and Mamba mentality with game-winners and late game daggers, etc. He’s talented and ceiling is high, but still tons of weaknesses and a loooong way to go. But as far as underperforming expectations, it’s Jalen Green by a mile over KPJ
What the hell were your expectations for a 19 yr old rookie that u r giving so much leeway to kpj, a player in his 3rd year already?
like how he is starting to realize he is faster than 99.99% of the NBA. dislike how much elevation he gets on his jumpers. always realeasing it on the way down. could be one of the reasons why his jumper is so inconsistent.
The FO made it clear KPJ was going to try and develop as point guard so he has the keys in his hands this season. It hasn't gone well, but the overall situation has been pretty inconsistent. This is Green's first year on a rookie deal while KPJ has this season and next.
perhaps we should bring Bret Brown on coaching staff... he has experience on tanking teams and is well versed at bringing up young and talented players...
I agree with the premise that if you have a rookie surrounded by vets/professionals it’s easier to hide their deficiencies. I also agree that we have a knucklehead/youth factor that isn’t the best environment. What I’m not a huge fan of is when CF diminishes what Mobley is doing only because Green is our guy by pointing to the Cavs roster or the former Rockets legend coaching them. There’s nothing really to hide with Mobley. He plays like a seasoned professional/vet and is one of the biggest reasons Cleveland has been such a surprise. People liked Allen’s trajectory but Cleveland has their own share of youth and knuckleheads and no one saw this coming. They are three wins from hitting the Vegas over for the season. We have some guys who are pros too like Gordon, Augustin, Tate, Nwaba, Theis, and Mathews.
It really isn't, but we've been over this enough. If you can't see how one super skinny, extremely quick, streaky shooting, lottery pick guard is similar to another that's your problem. I've spelled it out for you as well as possible several times now.... if you don't get it, you're just never going to.
Just goes to show how spoiled we've become. I disagree we are directionless.... just no one likes being at the very bottom of a rebuild. The goal was and is still to rebuild through a combination of player development and accumulating a new asset war chest. I think that it's perfectly reasonable to worry about how drafting Green over Mobley and Barnes impacts the future. Green is very much TBD to our disappointment, and I think that's despite how bad the supporting cast is. We can only hope that his work ethic and his progression matches his athletic ability. However, we also look like we did well drafting Sengun and Christopher while Garuba is TBD as well. I wouldn't let Green ruin any optimism of drafting for 2022.
Mobley can both be a stud and be put in a great situation with a very good center and a very good young point guard. Cleveland drafted a stud in Mobley and had jumps from Garland and Allen. Barnes is also a stud and put in a great situation.
But that might get cause and effect wrong. I think it’s more likely that Mobley is a big reason why those guys made leaps this year. I watched good chunks of several Cavs games around the same time after the Mobley hype started building a little bit (haven’t watched them as much lately) and was completely blown away with how good he was on defense both individually and within the scheme and how he almost never made mistakes and always seemed to make the right read within their offensive scheme. Again, I’m really encouraged with what Jalen is showing since coming back and am excited about his potential again. But if you swapped him and Mobley I think we make the play in and the Cavs don’t even make the play-in.
I’ll also add that the consensus excuse for Wiseman last year was that a rookie being thrown into a role needing to contribute immediately is harder for a rookie than being on a bad team and able to play through mistakes.
Yeah of the 3 key management positions, Stone is the only one in which I have any faith at this point Directionless was aimed mainly at Silas and Tilman I liked Stone's first draft a lot He seems to have a good personnel team of amateur scouts in place, and his move up for Sengun showed he knows how to match value for pick and player I think the Fertitta's decided Green was the guy at #2, so I don't hold that against him Not so sure he has a handle on pro personnel yet Harden deal was kinda forced on him, since superstars now dictate where and when they are dealt, so gets a pass there, and he did get a decent haul of picks back Wood's toxic attitude should have scared him away, as it did DET despite his 'breakout' there The Theis deal I will never understand I'll reserve judgement on that front until we see the return for EGo and Wood Gordon must net us at least one future asset of consequence It may already be too late to cash in Wood for any real value, but he brought in the guy, so that's all on Stone
Honestly, I have no idea how Green will turn out. But he's our guy so I'll continue to hope until reality finally hits and I can't hope no more. I suspect that if the other high picks (Mobley, Cunningham, Barnes, even Wagner) in this class weren't doing well, people would give him more slack.
Wiseman wasn't that bad, he just can't get healthy. Anyhow I'd be more worried about Green if he looked slow and couldn't create good looks or use his quickness to put pressure on a defense. Doesn't seem like either of those things is an issue.
