This threads me of the Sharia Law in Canada thread awhile back. I remember someone posted that we'd never have that trouble here in the US. I guess that's just around the corner. As far as gwayneco goes, I think the same people who are *ahem* outspoken critics of the US, are largely the same who immediately go off the deep end if someone is critical of Islam. "Those aren't REAL Muslims, its zionist propaganda, its the West's fault because of colonialism, its the US's fault, Islam is totally tolerant, etc etc." So he's chipping away piece by piece at that front. I don't agree with a lot of the conclusions, but that's my opinion about the intersection of politics, gwayneco, and Islam.
Separation of Church and State, it should stay that way. The law of the land should rule, not some religious doctrines.
Interesting post. Few of us know anyone outside of the BBS, except through e-mails, and those lucky enough to go to a ClutchFans get-together, like a Behad BBQ. I recall reading here that Trader_J is quite the charming fellow outside of his persona at ClutchFans. One would expect a rabid, python-flexing, foaming at the mouth lunatic from what we read, but that is only what we read here, apparently. I'm pretty much what you get here in "real life," except that I look older than I am, worst luck. I'm sure that gwayneco is very nice in person, and probably a great guy to have a beer with. I have an old friend who is an NRA, rabid-right maniac, who makes ROXRAN look rather demure, but he's still an old friend (and former hippie, believe it or not). I just try to avoid talking politics with him. We discuss music very easily, having gone to many concerts together, back in the day. Life is strange, and this is one of the stranger places around. Keep D&D Civil.
gwayneco or whatever his name is doesn't even deserve a response. with all due respect jackfruit, i dont care who you are....also, what makes you think i'm muslim? deal with the issues and dont try to analyze me personally....i never justified anything, all i said was that maybe you should walk a mile in somebody's shoes before you judge them sitting in relative comfort it was pretty obvious from your crude comments that you are no expert on islam and i'm glad you admitted that. Hey everybody's got issues, looking at the millions being killed in deke's country, i just dont see why singling out one group of over a billion people that is extremely diverse is useful in particular in this climate of xenophobia against muslims. also, if you're no authority on islam, you have no legitimacy and credibility demanding reform. your comments actually play right into people like gwayneco's hands and this is the problem with the muslim world and africa and latin america for that matter as well....no unity imagine if only a few would unite, they could easily get rid of the us supported dictatorships that rule over them and help others do the same and rid themselves of foreign occupation...iran would be an example they could follow, however, they're recalcitrant and allow the west to come in and divide and rule....let me give you 1 example of unity that was easy to do...in the 1973 arab-israeli war, to punish the west for their support of the israeli occupiers the arab states instituted an oil embargo that brought the economy of the west to its knees, but you know what happened, other countries such as iran, which was a us installed dictatorship at the time, increased oil production. with unity comes strength and there wont be the need for people to do the thngs you described above.
Yeah, wouldn't it be great if the world united against the West? Wouldn't that be a party! We could have Mullacracies, Talibanistans, and Kim Il Jong-a-thons. We could play pin the tail on the Tutsis and drink Janjaweed kool aid. Oh wait, no kool aid - that's more western imperialism. The West is bad.
i wansnt even talking to you....good job of responding to what i said with empty rhetoric...you've learned well from bush and co.
Nah, but I'm beginning to think I do. I let things said here get to me, and it's so silly. And thanks for nice words Major Mal and RMT. I may work on a longer reponse, but I would probably only make things worse. I suspect I may just knock off the threads and put a link to my www.furl.net page in my sig.
I really hope you are joking. If you are not, then you really shouldn't let what is said here get to you. I hope I didn't contribute to this. Look, you have the right to your opinion, whatever it may be. At the end of the day, it should not matter what I think or what others think. That's why this is the D&D. We all take crap from one another. I'll take your bull and you can take mine. If you were being sarcastic, then what I said above still stands. The fact that we all hold differing opinions and give each other crap over it is what makes this place interesting. Nothing personal and nothing malicious.
Great Post. Everyone should read and learn. I honestly think if we had more people who thought like him we would be in a better society. But D&D would be boring as hell.
1. Where did I say that Islam is the enemy of the US? 2. Where did I say that Islam is unrepentently backward?
I wasn't talking about personal attacks against me. I was talking about the Blame America First brigades that run rampant in here.
He made an observation and a conclusion based on your previous posts, which I would think 70-80% of the posters in here would agree with. Also, his point goes beyond only you. I guess you can't get yourself to think in a different perspective.
I'm sorry for assuming you were a Muslim. I don't think I need to. We are not talking about everyday opinions here. We are talking about bombings, kidnappings, and beheadings. I do not need to live a celibate life to know that raping and molesting little boys is wrong. I do not need to live a postal worker's stressful life to know that going "postal" is wrong. Plus, how do you know that I have always sat in "relative comfort?" First of all, why do I have to be an expert on Islam to know that many of them are doing things that are immoral and wrong? I do not have to be well versed on the Quran and Sunnah to know that. Knowledge about Islam has absolutely nothing to do with recognizing societal flaws within some in a culture, unless you are somehow insinuating that beheadings are a part of Islamic culture. With respect to the premise of what I am saying, I could think Islam is spelled with a 'Q.' By the way, assuming you are not a Muslim, what position are you in to judge my knowledge of Islam, Islamic culture, and its tenets? Are you an Islamic scholar? You seem to be in passing judgment on my knowledge of my faith. If you are not, then your opinion is just as lay as me, or even moreso lay because I am at least a part of the culture I am critiquing. Assuming you do know more than me about Islam, send me an e-mail through the board and educate me on how I can justify the actions of some Muslims based on Islamic knowledge. In all sincerity, I am interested to know. I certainly am not singling out ALL Muslims. I said that there are way too many, and I stand by that. That certainly does not encompass Muslims as a whole. I totally agree that Muslims are diverse and I use that argument time and time again on this board. I emphatically disagree. I do not need to be an Islamic scholar to demand basic changes within the Islamic community. That is an extremely elitist view to hold. What business does the average Joe have in choosing their elected officials? Does Joe Schmo understand Mccain-Feingold?
I wish you would make a distinction between those who oppose the President's policies, his actions, his assault on our civil liberties, and his dishonesty, and whoever you consider to be the "Blame America First" brigade. Why don't you tell us who makes up the "brigade?" Then folks like me can figure out if they're considered, in your mind, to "blame America first," for whatever you think America's being blamed for. Or do you consider George W. Bush to be America? Keep D&D Civil.
jackfruit, i never justified anything...go back and read my previous posts you seem like a self-hating muslim, because all you're doing is blaming the victims...if you wanna condemn the symptoms of dictatorial rule, foriegn occupation, murder, brutality, and torture, then you should also condemn the aforementioned root causes, which you havent done. granted you didnt say all muslims, but you do say that there are way too many...can you put a figure on that? where are these muslims that you're talking about and who are they? please be more specific instead of making vague references about such a diverse group of people. i just wonder how you would act if you're father was tortured to death, you mother was shot and killed, and your sister was raped....i'm sure you would turn the other cheek, right? i also noticed how you didnt comment on my thoughts about unity and strength
one last thing jackfruit, as i said earlier, your comments play right into the hands of those who want to demonize islam and add further to the climate of xenophobia, racism, and discrimination against arabs and muslims
Creepy -- honestly, it seems like you're arguing to argue. Jackfruit said there's "way too many f$#%ed up Muslims" giving his faith a bad name. He's not attacking Islam...or Muslims, generally. He's saying that there's some number out there that's hurt the perception of Islam in the world. Honestly, how can you argue against that? I'd argue there are way too many Christians giving the world a bad perception of what Christianity is, as well....and I'm a Christian. That's not singling out a faith...it's recognizing there is a large number of jackholes out there that cause trouble.
MadMax, thank you for your thoughtful reply, but i didnt do what you're accusing me of. i simply brought up some interesting points and asked him some pertinent questions...thats it
Lol, what a maroon. You accuse someone of 'playing into the hands' of racism and xenophobia. Then you accuse that person of 'blaming the victim' - the victim aka the suicide bombers, head choppers, and hijackers. What is labeling those people as victims but 'justifying' their acts? That's clearly a value judgement on your part, so at least take responsibility for your own advocacy. And btw: most, if not all, of the 9/11 hijackers were well educated and well off - so your positioning of them as having seen 'you're father tortured to death, you mother shot and killed, and your sister raped' is pretty disingenous.
