The "Intent of the Voters" is what's important (unless they're in the military)

If you're interested, here's the Herron memo: www.drudgereport.com/absent.htm

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According to the law, it's okay for a partisan canvassing board to determine what votes do and do not count.

According to you, it's okay for Bush's Florida campaign chairperson to determine what votes do and do not count.

According to me, the courts should make this decision, not the canvassing board.

Machines may not count hanging chads in all parts of the country. That means they're fair. I don't really care if manual recounts are legal. I care that the same standard is applied to everyone.

So what you're saying is that since Bush didn't exercise his rights, Al Gore should be denied his, correct?

Yes, but only the ones in the 3 counties in Florida will have theirs counted. How is this fair again? Oh, that's right, it's fair to the rest because GW Bush didn't request their votes to be recounted. It makes so much sense!

Actually, it does make sense. If the candidate does not want those votes, then that's his choice. If the candidate does want them, he has every right to request it.

There's no national standard between counties anyway. Some smaller counties are ALWAYS counted by hand -- why don't you have a problem with that? Some ballots are done by punch ballot, others by paper, others by computer. There is no standard across the board -- why do you insist on one here?

Some counties in Florida are done by scanner, some by punch reader, some by hand. Why do you have a problem with these 3 using hand instead of punch reader, especially when it's fairly standard procedure throughout the country?

Hand-recounts are done all over the country in close elections. For some reason, you seem to think there should be an exception here because one candidate happens to not want it.

Why do I care what Texas Law says about hanging chads?

To refresh your memory, you said: "Actually, hanging chad votes are apparently only legal in the 3 Democratic counties ..." and "Nobody else in Florida or anywhere else in the country that wasn't able to fully punch a hole has had the benefit of someone going back to examine their ballot".

Both of these are 100% false. If you don't want people correcting you, don't use false statements to make your arguments.


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Is it any coincidence that the Cato is the only Rocket with a temperature scale named after him?

I didnt think so!!!!

 

shanna,

What is your knowledge/familiarity with the members who are posting against you in this and related threads about the election?


Mango

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By the way, the Broward folks say they won't count the overseas ballots without postmarks despite the Florida Attorney General's request. This according to the AP.

Of course, they are saying there are only six such ballots that aren't counting, so it doesn't make that much difference. But still...

Broward has counted all their ballots, by the way. The count shows a net gain of 106 votes for Gore. There are supposedly 2,000 disputed ballots that they will go over to determine the "intent of the voter". Expect another lawsuit over that. Broward expewcts to be done by the new deadline. But since deadlines written into the law don't matter, I don't know why they are worrying about it here. Surely if the will of the people is so important, a deadline shouldn't matter, should it? (I mean, I think it should, but we've already thrown away several deadlines. If we're against deadlines, we might as well be against all of 'em).

Since Broward is the only county anywhere near being finished with their count, will Palm Beach County and Miami-Dade even be able to get theirs done on time?

It may be all up to Broward and their disputed votes to decide the election. Unless, of course, the new deadline ends up not mattering either.

Kind of interesting that it may all come down to dimpled chads in one county out of the entire United States. Seems to me that if we were truly interested in the will and intent of the voter, we'd look at all the ballots in all the counties in all the states where the difference could swing the state either way. I mean, if we're going to cross that line on the excuse that the will of the people is Paramount, shouldn't the will of all the people be Paramount?

I haven't supported these handcounts at all, but I think that if we change the standards, we need to apply those standards across the board, even if we apply them only in Florida (where the court that made this decision has authority), we should apply them for all of Florida.

(And I know the response is going to be that Bush should've asked for the recounts if he wanted them. But we're talking now about a new standard. Bush should have an opportunity to ask for handcounts now that follow the new standard. Had this standard been in place at the time, he might have asked for some counties to recount back then).

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Houston Sports Board
The Anti-Bud Adams Page

 

I'd say that if Bush still/ever wanted to hand recount the entire state, his chances are real good. Gore has already stated publically that he is not opposed to recounting the entire state, so Bush has a great opportuninty to call him on it.

Since Katherine Harris is pretty much in Bush's pocket anyway, he probably wouldn't even have to go to court.

As the saying goes, a bird in hand is worth two in the bush (unintentional pun). Bush has the lead right now, even if the count has been shown to be rife with inaccuracies. He has a lot more to lose from a statewide hand count than Gore, so he has chosen to impede their progress.

You can fully expect Bush to appeal today's decision to the federal Supreme Court (though odds are, they won't touch it), and if the recounted counties lead to a Gore victory, you will see Bush try to sue for recounts in Republican counties all over Florida.

Unfortunately, this election most likely won't be over anytime soon.

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This election will be over by January 6th, I'm sure. That's not too long. It may effectively be over by December 12th.

I still wonder how these two counties are going to get their counts done in the next 90 hours or so. Miami-Dade said December 1st at the earliest. Can they shave a week off that time? That's what seems so weird about this decision from the Court. They go on and on about the intent of the voter and the will of the people and then say, but only if the ballots are counted by Sunday. That seems weird to me.

It also seems weird to me that people defending the Court's decision (when they are questioned about it. I'm not saying that the Court was necessarily wrong) point to that "may" in the law about whether or not the Secretary of State has discretion to accept handcounts after the deadline to support a decision that takes away all discretion from the Secretary of State (the counrt says she has to accept the counts). Insanity has run amok among the people who go on TV to talk about these things.

It also seems weird to me that we have a judicial system whose job it is to interpret the law - to clarify what the law says. But the guy who wrote the law in question says that the Legislature didn't mean what the Court decided today (and I don't see how the Legislature could've intended when the court decided. There's no way you could read that law and find a Sunday, November 26th deadline in it, etc.)

If we have the courts to make law, why do we even need Legislatures? (Well, I know why we need a Texas Legislature - to pass laws that people can cite when talking about the rules in Florida).

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Houston Sports Board
The Anti-Bud Adams Page

 

Interesting note from MSNBC:

Attorney General Bob Butterworth, a Gore supporter, sent a letter Monday to county election officials across Florida urging
them to count the spurned ballots, but some county election officials said his letter carried no legal weight

And Clay Roberts, Republican-appointed director of the State Division of Elections, said the overseas vote was counted and certified by all 67 county elections supervisors and the state has no plans to revisit the issue. “The state canvassing commission is forbidden by law to look beyond those returns,” Roberts said.

Turns out this isn't necessarily the partisan issue some people tried to make it out to be.




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Is it any coincidence that the Cato is the only Rocket with a temperature scale named after him?

I didnt think so!!!!

 

If we have the courts to make law, why do we even need Legislatures? (Well, I know why we need a Texas Legislature - to pass laws that people can cite when talking about the rules in Florida).

Courts "make" law all the time by interpreting law differently than may have been intended or written. It's been a part of our government system since inception. You act like this is something new?

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Is it any coincidence that the Cato is the only Rocket with a temperature scale named after him?

I didnt think so!!!!

 

I wasn't saying it was something new. I was just asking the question in light of the most recent example of a court making a decision that is most certainly contrary to the will of the legislators who passed the law. It's not a matter of interpretation in this case. This is just making new law.

But I didn't say that it was anything new. You just interpreted my statements that way.

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Houston Sports Board
The Anti-Bud Adams Page

 

mrpaige,

do you disagree w/ the Florida Supreme Court? Anytime I hear the words 'Supreme Court' I figure an issue is resolved, whether or not I agree w/ the verdict. Likewise, had Gore been told to bug off I believe all of us pro-voters would have joined you pro-bushers in demanding Gore's concession.

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It just goes to show how skewed our priorities are when Mo Taylor makes millions of dollars while some high school teacher, that can actually rebound, scrapes to make a living.

If Mo were half the power forward that Charles Barkley was, he'd be 3'2" and still board more than he does now.

 

But I didn't say that it was anything new. You just interpreted my statements that way.

Sorry, my bad



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Is it any coincidence that the Cato is the only Rocket with a temperature scale named after him?

I didnt think so!!!!