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The incredible transformation of Justin Brooks Verlander

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Yordan The Great, Jul 9, 2022.

  1. Nook

    Nook Member

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    He will get in. The demographics of voters has changed. Greinke has more career WAR than Verlander the last time I looked. He has made 6 all star teams, 2 ERA titles, a Cy Young and finished in the top 5 a handful of times.

    Only real comparable pitcher not in is Curt Schilling and that is because he is a jerk.
     
  2. panamamyers

    panamamyers Member

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    CC will undoubtedly get in. Maybe 50/50 first ballot. Greinke was better than him. Verlander will end up being better than Greinke though they are likely about equal at the moment as far as careers go.
     
  3. Yordan The Great

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    I dunno, they say CC is a lock, which is an absolute joke, and of course it's only because he's a Yankee for the majority of his career. Disgusting. It's akin to Eli Manning getting into the NFL HOF.

    Hey if you can perform on a mediocre level for long enough you can get in apparently.

    Greinke >>> CC
     
    #23 Yordan The Great, Jul 10, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2022
  4. Yordan The Great

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    Food for thought, Verlander on pace after next season to have the most wins by a starting pitcher for anyone that started after 1991.
     
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  5. Wulaw Horn

    Wulaw Horn Member

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    Everyone was saying 300 was dead but I always expected JV to get there. I really think he’s pitching into his mid 40’s. but boy, after that there aren’t even a ton of sure bets for 250, hell even 200.
     
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  6. Htown Stros

    Htown Stros Member

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    Hes going to end up with 250+ wins and well over 3000 Ks. Might win a third cy young this year and has thrown 3 no hitters, which is elite company. Further, he’s got a ring during an impressive post season career.
     
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  7. Tuckmose

    Tuckmose Member

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    300 was dead the moment Verlander went down for TJ. He'd be at 255 at least by now if he got that season and a half back.
     
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  8. astrosrule

    astrosrule Member

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    The Eli comp is pretty absurd, Eli was a mediocre/bad player most of his career, CC was at least a good pitcher
     
  9. Buck Turgidson

    Buck Turgidson Mineshaft Enthusiast

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    Joe Namath is in the HOF because of 1 game. Eli Manning is a HOFer. Different standards in different sports.

    CC is pretty borderline to me, but I'm sure he'll get in.
     
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  10. astrosrule

    astrosrule Member

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    I have no doubt eli will get in, because people are dumb, but he’s not even remotely worthy of consideration let alone getting in
     
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  11. Tuckmose

    Tuckmose Member

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    CC isn't an above average hall of famer, but 62 WAR isn't horrendous at all.

    Unlike Ortiz, he was never busted for juicing. He's a deserving hall of famer, albeit a below average one.
     
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  12. Wulaw Horn

    Wulaw Horn Member

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    He can still get there if he pitches as long as I think he will. I think he’s got another 5 years in him after this year. If he sticks with good teams he can still get there.
     
  13. Yordan The Great

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    That is correct.

    His career QB Rating is right at the mean of all QBs during the entirety of his career span. In other words, he was a middle of the road mediocre quarterback his entire career who happened to luck out on 2 extraordinary defensive runs by the 07 and 11 Giants teams. Look at his stats during those runs, he was middling at best, and that's being kind. It's not like he had a Joe Flacco playoff run in either of those 2 championship seasons.
     
  14. Yordan The Great

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    That's the key, sticking with a good team like the Astros will be in at least the next 3-4 years, the amount of time it will take for him to get there. That's why I think he'll end his career with the Astros.
     
  15. STR8Thugg

    STR8Thugg STR8Thugg Member
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    Verlander not a HOF lock?

    Homie, it’s time to pass the joint.
     
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  16. Colt45

    Colt45 Member
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    Baseball Reference's HoF Tracker has JV comfortably above the level of an average HoFer. He should be an absolute lock for the HoF. If he delivers another couple of seasons at an elite level, he's all but assured first ballot consideration.
     
  17. Wulaw Horn

    Wulaw Horn Member

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    I think his point was JV wasn’t a HOF lock when he came to the Astros. Which is probably correct. I think he might have gotten in but it was probably marginal. that’s why he was talking about things like 180 wins and 6 all star appearances and the like.
    it was in response to someone else saying HOF lock before he came over.
     
  18. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

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    Slam dunk. Mike Mussina is on a similar tier, and we've seen how the changing electorate helped him. Greinke then gets the extra boost of being the best pitcher in baseball for 2 seasons in his career.
    CC isn't going in first ballot, but probably does make it. 250 wins + his 2009 WS run + Cy Young + 6 time allstar is going to be hard to deny. Slightly better resume than Andy Pettitte who isn't getting voted in, but better than some other guys who have managed to get in. Personally I see him as extremely borderline.

    JV will be first ballot. He'll still have a shot at 300, but he'll have to play to 45 like Randy Johnson & Nolan Ryan
     
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  19. Nook

    Nook Member

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    I think CC gets in but I don’t really think he should get in personally. I would rather have Roy Oswalt be my starter for 10 years instead of CC for 15 years. If CC is in then why isn’t David Cone? Tim Hudson? Andy Pettite won 5 WS and an ALCS MVP and finished in the top 5 Cy Young voting a handful of times.

    It’s okay, maybe CC getting in will lead to some others getting in.
     
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  20. Nook

    Nook Member

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    I would think 300 is out of reach but last year Keith Law told me that Verlander has told everyone that he plans to pitch until he is 45 years old or older (with an emphasis on older).

    He will likely be at around 245 wins at the end of this season and will be 39 years old. If he finishes this year strong and slaps another 20 win season after that, then he is really close.

    As far as warning signs, the only one I can find is his spin rate on his fastball is down. Now that can be age and recover from TJ or that could be on purpose.

    What I know is that in the 4 baseball seasons with the Astros he has won 75% of his decisions and has an era of around 2.30.
     

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