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The incredible transformation of Justin Brooks Verlander

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Yordan The Great, Jul 9, 2022.

  1. HTown2017Champs

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    Well, unless our conditioning staff is a bunch of magicians that magically make everyone stay healthy, the trade doesn't explain why he performed much worse in the Tigers system even when he was healthy. Some guys just perform well until a certain level and then flame out. But he isn't the only prospect whose performance fell after being traded away from the Astros system (Seth Beer also comes to mind).
     
  2. Yordan The Great

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    Forgot all about Seth Beer. Was that the Greinke trade l assume?

    He had 1 HR in 111 ABs this season. Ouch.
     
  3. rockets1995

    rockets1995 Member

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    Mark Appel, he just got called up to the Phillies this year, not on playoff roster
     
  4. IdStrosfan

    IdStrosfan Member

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    In fairness he wasn't very good before the trade.
     
  5. xcrunner51

    xcrunner51 Contributing Member

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    Long odds he makes the majors at this point. He's gotten barely 50 IP over 5 years in Detroit and had shoulder surgery recently.
     
  6. HTown2017Champs

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    Appel is a unique one. He didn't perform too well at the time of the trade, as someone else previously stated. The trade for Giles was essentially about salvaging whatever value he still had left. Then, after a few years in the Philly system, he took some time away from the game for personal reasons. Some things are bigger than baseball, I'm just happy he was able to get called up to the Majors after what he went through.
     
  7. rockets1995

    rockets1995 Member

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    Astros dodged Brady Aiken, Brady had a bad arm by taking a doctor physical and Mike Elias almost selected him. For me I had a bad feeling about him by looking at his bad hairline almost going bald as a High Schooler, plus being so tan. Astros got sued by Aiken, ESPN annoying selves loved hating on the Astros back then.

    Alex Bregman being selected as a replacement at 2 changed the Franchise into a Dynasty.

    Kyle Tucker selected at 4 from High School

    Mike Elias messed up with Appel and almost with Aiken, thankful that Alex Bregman got selected. After Bregman, Kyle Tucker was selected at 4.
     
    snowconeman22 likes this.
  8. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

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    This scenario reminds me a bit of the off-season of 1988 in regards to Nolan Ryan.
    Nolan was 41 years old.
    We all know what he did after that in Southern Oklahoma. Some have said it was one of the Astros biggest mistakes not resigning him and letting him retire as an Astro. I am sure that memory is not lost on Crane or the other Astros brass.

    But 2022 isn't 1988. And Nolan isn't Justin. Different circumstances, Different pitchers. Different Eras.

    But It still has to be tough.
    If the Astros were totally all in on resigning him, wouldn't it already be done?
    If Justin was totally all in on staying, wouldn't it?

    Both sides testing the waters I think.
    While the Abreu signing helps the offense, I am waiting to see how the pitching turns out.
    Pitching was dominate force in winning the World Series. It will be important in 2023 as well.
     
    snowconeman22 likes this.
  9. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

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    I agree the memory shouldn’t be lost , but 40 million a year is a hell of a lot . For a near 40 year old pitcher and 3 years , well it’s a lot .

    hell I’d gamble and do it . But I’d want some guarantee . How much does insurance on that cost ?

    verlander felt bad about not pitching due to injury . Can we make a deal with him personally that he only gets like 10-15 mil if he’s out for the season . Of course he gets paid per % of season he starts playing at . And normal injuries and rest dont detract unless he start missing like 1/3 -1/2 the season .

    but that deal prolly isn’t legal
     
    jim1961 likes this.
  10. txppratt

    txppratt Contributing Member

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    Don’t underestimate the value JV brings to this team and locker room!!

    let’s have him retire an Astro
     
  11. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

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    Let's not overestimate Verlanders impact in the locker room. He's never been known as a locker room guy. He didn't really build strong relationships until this season. We were favored in the World series last season.
     
  12. IdStrosfan

    IdStrosfan Member

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    While this is true people can change.

    In his own words, the game was nearly taken from him. That brought new appreciation and desire to pitch several more years.

    Having a wife and, especially, a daughter has really changed his life and perspective.

    That is why he is such a good clubhouse guy.

    But I can also remember him coming out of the clubhouse to rally the team from the dugout in the 2017 postseason ( I think WS but not sure)

    The Astros are better with him but If he moves on then its his choice and the Astros will survive.

    And still be the World Series favorites and have a great season.
     
  13. Major

    Major Member

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    That just incentivizes him to not pitch as hard to not risk injury. When players get injured, it's in doing their job for the team. There's no reason they should get paid less through something that's no fault of their own. He's never sign that type of deal, and if the Astros offered it, he'd probably (rightfully) be insulted.
     
  14. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

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    I never said he was a bad locker room guy, but he's not a great locker room guy. We really don't need him in the locker room consider how well we did with him not being anywhere close to the locker room. I still want him back though. Can't have enough elite arms.
     
  15. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

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    Oh, I agree with you. If it were my money, I would spend it elsewhere.
    But I wouldn't spend all of it on hitting.
     
    dmoneybangbang likes this.
  16. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    And Nolan wasn’t coming off a CYA or one of the most statistically dominant seasons of his career… 1 year post TJ surgery.

    Also, the lack of a signing to this point doesn’t really raise too many concerns. JV’s camp wants to set the market… and Crane wants to evaluate things with a price point/set market. Same thing happned last year when there were even more question marks on JV than there is now.

    We know Crane has already paid market rate for him without hesitation in the past. And we also know the Astros scrutinize medicals like no other, so if there was truly a concern that JV was about to have a full body breakdown, they’d probably no longer be in the mix.
     
  17. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

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    We also aren't asking Verlander to take a pay cut. That was the terrible thing about Ryan.

    Will be so interesting to see what deal Verlander ends up with.
     
  18. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

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    IMO, he will get most if not all of what he wants.
    The real question is how many and which clubs offer it to him.
     
  19. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

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    I could see something like 1year for $50M or a 5 year $150M deal.

    3/$105M feels right to me, but who knows. Only takes one team...
     
  20. donkeypunch

    donkeypunch Contributing Member

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    Orioles outrighted Daz Cameron. Thank you for your service.
     
    scott_summers likes this.

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