Thanks. To anyone else reading this: please notice that I wrote those posts before the Spurs disaster, so I can't be accused of being a fair-weather fan. I wrote what I did because my greatest fear for the Rockets is that we would become a clone of the Knicks. That franchise was a wasteland when JVG finally quit. No matter who the new coach and GM were, they would have needed a generation to recover from having been Gundied. Early last season, before all the injuries, JVG said that he expected to glue Luther's butt to the bench. It was at that moment that I realized the coach had learned nothing from his Knicks disaster, and was not going to change. That was when I began sounding the alarm over JVG.
Good analysis terse. I live in New York. And I have seen what Gundy schemes can do to a team up close and personal.
wow, i can't believe what was originally intended as a joke of a thread may actually survive for a long time as a serious discussion of JVG's possible replacment. i'm pretty sure that's not what Van Gundier had in mind.
Lots of angst and negativity in this thread...Chill guys, chill Anyway, I seriously don't think Van Gundy is that bad of a coach. His defensive philosophy is, of course, excellent. And his offensive philosophy ain't all that bad either. He knows what to run, and he knows what to counter the other team with. And saying he doesn't developed youngsters is not all that true either. Remember, he was the one who saw Yao Ming as a future beast down low back in 2002 when everyone was gushing over Yao's passing and ability to hit the elbow jumper faced up on the high post. What so little of the casual fans saw was how Yao, once he bulked up, would be a natural mismatch down on the block over ANYONE because of his height. And look where he is now. It's because JVG drilled that low-post game into him, that he's able to become as versatile as he is now and open up his face-up game more often. But the things I do agree with, are that JVG is rigid. That's probably his biggest shortcoming. It's true that he needs JVG-type players to fit into his system. It's true that he can't really adapt to his players' styles all that well. Fact is, last year we should have been an up-and-down team running lots of off-ball picks and backdoor lobs, especially when Yao went out and we have an athletic freak PF in Stromile Swift. But he didn't. It goes beyond Rafer not being familiar with the system yet, but JVG's offensive sets are just that traditional. One thing that I hated about last season was that even with Yao Ming out, he was running so many "dead" plays for Tmac and Juwan. Basically he had them running off picks left and right to get open to receive the ball and go to work. Which is fine, especially in Juwan's case, because when Yao was out, he was the only other legit big man with a decent low-post game we had, and his offensive game is based largely around getting the ball at the low block and working for the bucket himself. But even with Tmac being hobbled by his knees and back, he kept running the same iso plays over and over, when IMO, the team would be much more effective if you vary it up, and have Mac iso'd up sometimes, and curl off picks for open shots and lobs sometimes. So, overall, while JVG isn't as bad as some of you have made him out to be, he could have done a lot of things differently too. And judging from this year's team, I see him making an effort to change his style, which is good. But quite frankly, I see JVG as the type of coach you bring in to build a winning culture, but after the system is establish, you need another one coming in who'll take over and be able to get the team over the hump.
Adelman isn't a championship coach. He was replaced with Musselman, because they believed Musselman had a better chance of taking them to a championship. Most of the time, the championship coaches don't play their rookies alot of minutes in October, let alone through out the season, if they are going to win that year. There may be some exceptions for top 5 picks. If you go back through history, you will find the majority of championships were won with rookies riding pine most of the time. Larry Brown(Pistons) Pat Riley(Miami Heat, Wayne Simien, Earl Barron) Popovich
WOW MY PRECIOUS ,. . . MY PRECIOUS!@!!!1 We must protect the Van Gundy at all costs. . he is the team he is more than the team must make excus . . .er .. . .reason for MY Precious . .. 55 wins. . . That is all I have to say I'm not worried. . we will get them . . . barring injury Yao alone is worth 40 wins . .. T-mac and Yao should be 55 [for the record T-mac alone is worth 35 wins] Rocket River
The Most Major Criticism of JVG from me . . is his Motivational Skills and yes. . Every GREAT Coach has some Rocket River
As I said, most of the coaches in the Hall of Fame were considered non-championship material and were fired several times. If the HoF is not considered "good" I don't know what is. Not so. You cited Popovich as a grinch? Untrue: Beno Udrih got 1149 minutes in 2004-05 and Manu Ginobili got 1431 minutes in 2002-03. Both were rookies on championship teams. They accounted for two out of three of Pop's championship years. It would have been 3 out of 3 except the Spurs did not quite win it all in Tim Duncan's rookie year. (They won it the next year though.) Or how about Phil Jackson? Mike Penberthy (2000-2001). Or Pat Riley? Magic Johnson (1979-1980); Kurt Rambis (1981-1982); Billy Thompson (1986-1987). All these coaches know what they are doing -- unlike a certain balding, shortsighted guy who devastated his previous team and hopefully will not do the same to the Rockets.
So what Adleman was fired, JVG flat out quit on his team. Name a championship coach who quit on his team for non-health reasons.
Wrong about Popovich, but you still showed everything that was mentioned. Most championship coaches didn't win championships playing rookies significant minutes. You even went back to 1979 and found only 5. It was also mentioend about the top 5 pick. Thanks for looking that up for me. I thought there would be more than Magic. You have proven that the majority of championships have not been won with rookies playing significant minutes. You have shown that only a handful of done it. Terse, that's cool of you to research that, unless you are just a big basketball buff.
Mordo: The majority of championship teams don't play rookies heavy minutes, so JVG is doing the right thing by not playing rookies. I see the point. Following the logic, since the majority of championship coaches don't quit on their teams, then JVG is clearly not a championship caliber coach. Don't you think the logic is a little contradictory? Regards.
How many have quit? Is the sample a large enough one for every year? I just know Larry Brown and JVG. I know JVG, because it is mentioned here already. I know about Larry Brown, because that just happened last year.
No trouble, the info is available everywhere. It's not a handful, by the way. Since the 1946 founding of the NBA, 27 championship teams have had rookies who averaged 8 or more minutes per game. That is not quite a majority of the time (only 45%), so you can technically claim to be right. But 45 percent is far more than a handful. And consider how badly this reflects on JVG. He was head coach of the Knicks for seven years, and yet he could not once do what nearly half the championship teams managed to do: namely, find plenty of minutes for rookies. If once is an accident, twice is a coincidence, and three times a conspiracy, what would seven times be? Pretty damned deliberate neglect, I would say.
