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The "I like ball movement" better than wins crowd is looking?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by jiggyfly, Feb 25, 2021.

  1. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    Lets just say we don't agree about CP3 and him taking the suns to the 4th seed means nothing to me.

    I just think Paul is a bit overrated considering what he has not accomplished on some very good teams.

    CP3 is not a great playoff performer.
     
  2. LosPollosHermanos

    LosPollosHermanos Houston only fan
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    The idea that ball movement is being discouraged shows how old some of these new fans are and how much basketball they’ve actually played.

    it’s like some alt reality
     
  3. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    Ball movement isn’t some inherently better basketball. I don’t know where that even comes from. Basketball is a sport where you play different styles and play to your personnel.
     
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  4. riko

    riko Member

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    Some of these clowns might want to see harden this season. The ball moves in Brooklyn under his control but the irony is it’s the Rockets offense that is the one with no ball movement so far under Johnny ball hog
     
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  5. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    Yeah just look at Jordans usage rate.
     
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  6. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    I think I provided explainations why I believe it's inherently better before.

    1. I'm sure if you ever played a pick up game in Football or basketball you would realize defending takes more energy than offense and the reason why is that the offensive player know the path they are going to take before hand while the defender is anticipating. This means the defender has to exert extra energy maintaining balance to correct any incorrect guesses in anticipation. In a iso centric offense were everyone stands around, the defenders have more chances to rest. And when the opposing team runs a motion centric offense, your team is expending more energy chasing down off ball players running through screens. The offensive player isn't exerting as much energy so throughout a game the motion centric offensive team is expending less energy overall.

    2. The more defenses have to fight through screens and chase down off ball players, the more opportunities for mistakes and being out of position. You are creating higher probabilistic odds that a defender is going to make a mistake which can create things like wide open cuts underneath the basket.
     
  7. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Usage rate calculates what percentage of team plays a player was involved in while he was on the floor, provided that the play ends in one of the three true results: field-goal attempt, free-throw attempt or turnover.

    It doesn't really doesn't say how much iso ball someone does. Jordan did quote a bit of off ball movement. He would run around curls and do quick catch and shoot attempts all over the halfcourt along with explosive iso plays. He had a large variety of ways he scored.
     
  8. francis 4 prez

    francis 4 prez Contributing Member

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    except that just doesn't jibe with what happened.

    westbrook had his 3rd highest scoring season of his career and best fg% season and we traded people and changed the entire way we play to help him. if that dude needed more accomodation, i don't know what to say.

    in the last 5 seasons, which include the year before houston and 2 after, cp3's highest FGA and PPG season was 2018. and in 2019, despite shooting a career worst from the field and being bad overall, his FGA's were basically the same as in okc and phoenix. he's been a 17/8 guy for 5 years and was 17/8 here.

    if dwight wanted more touches than all the inefficient turnover-causing post-ups he was already getting, then i'm glad we turned him down and drove him out of town because it was nothing but good for us after that.
     
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  9. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    Bro, do you see Lebron running around screens? Did you see alot of ball movement in Cleveland with Irving and Lebron. Did you see a lot of movement with Durant or Westbrook in OKC. Did you see a lot of movement with the Miami Heat? Its not an inherently better style of play. There are plenty of teams through out NBA history who havent won on ball movement bro. That's the beauty of basketball, there are multiple ways to win. You saying stuff about how hard something is to guard is great and all but its not inherently better. Its about personnel in the NBA and playing to your strengths. Brooklyn has 3 of the best Iso players in the NBA and they have the recorded best offense of all time. Dallas ran a heliocentric offense based on Luka and had the best offense of all time. Do you see? Ball movement doesnt work for everyone.
     
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  10. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    He is though man. Alright, we'll just let this go lol.
     
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  11. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Durant did a lot of catch and shoot.

    Lebron is Lebron.

    Dallas is bellow .500 and has had only.onf decent season with Luka.

    There is a healthy balance somewhere dude.

    Do you have any critique of my actual explaination why I think motion offenses are better?
     
  12. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    So? That doesnt require ball movement that requires someone to pass him the ball for catch and shoot. Their offense in OKC was very iso centric and they had success. They almost beat the 73 Warriors.

    And? On ball player for the most part. There are plenty of legends in NBA history who dont rely on off ball movement.

    Its not Luka's fault Dallas isnt good(their offense is top 10). And the Warriors and the Heat who have the ball movement you love so much are either out of the playoffs or the 8th seed. So tell me more about how this beautiful ball movement elevates teams?

    Healthy balance? It depends on the personnel. Thats what I've been arguing. You cant say one style is inherently better than the other.
     
  13. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    So do you have any critique on the actual mechanistic aspect of why I think motion offenses are better?
     
  14. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    No. Its fine reasoning but just because something is harder to guard doesnt necessarily make it harder to stop. Just like NBA offenses who have more ball movement dont necessarily make them have better offenses and there are plenty of examples to illustrate that. You cant just say "Ball movement is inherently better" that's just such a black and white statement that leaves out any nuance to the game and its different players.
     
  15. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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  16. Aruba77

    Aruba77 Contributing Member

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    what is this ball movement you speak of?
     
  17. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    Can we talk about ball movement and team ball

    13 assists
    I expected more than that.

    Rocket River
     
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  18. s3ts

    s3ts Member

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    I know what they'll say on this thread...

    Dipo is finally off-ball unlike Harden so... , he just now needs to make the shot after they give him the ball.
     
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  19. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    We had 10 assists last game

    Now I am wondering what our assist numbers look like post-Harden

    Rocket River
     
  20. Loneyroy7

    Loneyroy7 Member

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    @fchowd0311 is glad Harden is gone because he wasn't running off screens and pindowns.

    Word.
     
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