and this, from Paul Bremer today, http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/08/o...=e61ed84a3498ded0&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland -- The press has been curiously reluctant to report my constant public support for the president's strategy in Iraq and his policies to fight terrorism. I have been involved in the war on terrorism for two decades, and in my view no world leader has better understood the stakes in this global war than President Bush. The president was right when he concluded that Saddam Hussein was a menace who needed to be removed from power. He understands that our enemies are not confined to Al Qaeda, and certainly not just to Osama bin Laden, who is probably trapped in his hide-out in Afghanistan. As the bipartisan 9/11 commission reported, there were contacts between Al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein's regime going back a decade. We will win the war against global terror only by staying on the offensive and confronting terrorists and state sponsors of terror - wherever they are. Right now, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a Qaeda ally, is a dangerous threat. He is in Iraq. President Bush has said that Iraq is the central front in the war on terror. He is right. Mr. Zarqawi's stated goal is to kill Americans, set off a sectarian war in Iraq and defeat democracy there. He is our enemy. Our victory also depends on devoting the resources necessary to win this war. So last year, President Bush asked the American people to make available $87 billion for military and reconstruction operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. . . . Mr. Kerry is free to quote my comments about Iraq. But for the sake of honesty he should also point out that I have repeatedly said, including in all my speeches in recent weeks, that President Bush made a correct and courageous decision to liberate Iraq from Saddam Hussein's brutality, and that the president is correct to see the war in Iraq as a central front in the war on terrorism.
more on the benefits of preemptive action -- Federal law enforcement authorities notified school districts in six states last month that a computer disk found in Iraq contained photos, floor plans and other information about their schools, two U.S. officials said Thursday. . . . The districts mentioned are in Georgia, Florida, Michigan, New Jersey, Oregon and California. The officials said last month that FBI agents in charge of those areas alerted local education and law enforcement officials.
I only asked a focused question which casts a different perspective on our warring presence in Iraq. How do you get from there to trying to impose an attempt to dishonor our soldiers in the Pacific Theatre? Oh yeah, C-H-E-A-P-S-H-O-T. Be ashamed...
I believe that SamFisher has corrected us about this before. As I recall, Germany had already declared war on us. Then came Pearl Harbor. Then we declared war on Japan... and eventually Germany.
What is your point? I hope you are not trying to use the U.S. war on Germany in WWII as an excuse for preemptive war in Iraq... ...that would be really dumb.
Dec. 7: Japanese attack naval base at Pearl Harbor Dec. 8: Roosevelt gives "Day of Infamy" speech; United States and Britain declare war on Japan Dec. 11: Germany declares war on the United States, U.S. declares war on Germany A link , one of many.
more here http://www.macon.com/mld/telegraph/9864539.htm -- Jones school information on disk found in Iraq By Liz Fabian and Gray Beverley Telegraph Staff Writers When Jones County parents received a letter about school security from the superintendent last week, there was no mention of a computer disk found in Iraq that contained information about local schools. Federal law enforcement authorities in Washington, D.C., notified school districts in six states last month that a disk found in Iraq contained photos, floor plans and other information about their schools, two U.S. officials said Thursday. According to an Associated Press report, information about schools in Jones County was on the disk. Allison Childs, who previously ran for a seat on the Jones County Board of Education, said her ninth-grade daughter told Childs there has been an added police presence at the school since last week. Sheriff Butch Reece could not be reached for comment late Thursday. Ted Stone, chairman of the Jones County Board of Education, said although he was alerted to the discovery, he didn't want to scare parents or students because "there is no specific threat directed toward Jones County." "We don't want to frighten our people to death," he said. Stone mentioned the recent attack at the Russian school in Beslan as an example of why security needs to be heightened. "Times are kind of tricky," he said. "We never know what might happen anywhere." He said the board did not request extra police at any of the schools, but the staff had been asked to be on the lookout. School board member Deloras Moon said the board did not meet to discuss the matter, but she was informed of security concerns and that a letter would be sent to parents. She was not aware of any specific threat, she said. "We did send some letters home," Moon said Thursday night. "It was our determination just with all the concerns with security in smaller towns that has been on everybody's minds, we would be proactive." The downloaded data found by the U.S. military in July - all publicly available on the Internet - included an Education Department report guiding schools on how to prepare and respond to a crisis, said one official, speaking on condition of anonymity. The officials said it was unclear who downloaded the information and stressed there is no evidence of any specific threats involving the schools. In a Sept. 30 letter from Jones County Superintendent William C. Mathews Jr. to parents, faculty and staff, he said: "It is important to know that no threat of any type has been directed or is suspected against any Jones County school." "State and local law enforcement personnel have informed us of the need to increase our school security during this election season," the two-paragraph letter begins. The only hint of the computer disk discovery comes in the second sentence: "Much information about schools is available on open-source Web sites and some of this information, along with a great variety of other information, has been downloaded from across the United States." The letter goes on to say: "In an effort to be proactive and ensure the safety of all, we are reviewing our school safety plans. You may notice an increase in law enforcement visibility as well as other measures designed to provide a safe and pleasant environment." The seven other districts that are being monitored are in Florida, Michigan, New Jersey, Oregon and California, according to the AP. Officials said last month that FBI agents in charge of those areas alerted local education and law enforcement officials about the finding. The disk found in Iraq contained an Education Department report called "Practical Information on Crisis Planning: A Guide for Schools and Communities," published in May 2003, as well as photos and floor plans. Federal law enforcement officials also have urged local police to stay in contact with school officials and have encouraged reporting of suspicious activities, the letter says. In particular, schools were told to watch for activities that may be legitimate on their own - but may suggest a threat if many of them occur. Among those activities: • Interest in obtaining site plans for schools, bus routes and attendance lists. • Prolonged "static surveillance" by people disguised as panhandlers, shoe shiners, newspaper or flower vendors or street sweepers not previously seen in the area. • Observations of security drills. • People staring at or quickly looking away from employees or vehicles as they enter or leave parking areas. • Foot surveillance of campuses involving individuals working together. The effort is the latest by the Education Department and other federal agencies to encourage school officials to maintain and practice a plan for responding to emergencies.
basso some more information about those disks found of schools... The military retrieved the disks in Iraq within the last couple of months, and they were turned over to the FBI, one official said Thursday. "There is no threat associated with this," another government official said. The schools are in Fort Myers, Florida; Salem, Oregon; Jones County, Georgia; New Jersey; Michigan; and California. The Department of Homeland Security official said the material was associated with a person in Iraq, and it could not be established that this person had any ties to terrorism. He did have a connection to civic groups doing planning for schools in Iraq, the official said. http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/10/08/schools.iraq/index.html
You know what's funny is that you started a thread about Saddam bribing other countries to prevent war from coming to his country. Why, because he knew he'd lose and either be killed or captured. So if Saddam was so hell bent on avoiding war, why would he be involved in a sinister plot against US schools? Something that would have been an actual clear reason for a war with Iraq? Doesn't matter now though, since the disk was actually supposed to help Iraqis build schools.
Cool. So I was right before SamFisher "instructed" me.... The point still is made that we didn't principally or exclusively just lash back at the Japanese for Pearl Harbor. We first declared war on Japan but took on the German army. Is that screwed up or not? Not.
Germany had attacked our allies and declared war on us prior to the U.S. going after them. Saddam had done neither.
What about his payments to the surviving families of Palestinian suicide bombers? How about his partial genocide of the Kurds? How about his murderous rampage of his political enemies within Iraq? They were not our enemies and, in fact, may well be called our allies. What about the murals of a Iraqi planes crashing into one of the Towers in NY? How about his snubbing the UN sanctions from a dozen years earlier at the end of The Gulf War? My, you are tolerant...
Except it was no secret that the Nazis were allied with the Japanese. As opposed to Al Qaeda and Saddam where there's no evidence of cooperation.
There was evidence of attempts at cooperation. That's enough for me. They are both enemies of the American people. Collaboration would not have been long in developing-- especiallly after the blow AQ struck here. That's what the preemptive doctrine is about.
True he did pay families of suicide bombers but so have the Saudis and the Arab Gulf States (who are our allies) through their "charities." So now we're invading people based on murals? I saw a piece, I think it was either on 60 Min. or Frontline, last year showing how a locally popular play in India celebrating Osama Bin Ladin. Perhaps we should invade India.
Because of all these things we should have continued to make sure he never got WMD. The insepctions were working finally, and with additional CIA agents that we could have had on the ground there, in conjunction with the no-fly zones, satellite, and spy planes keep track on things, he wouldn't have had the chance to build up his arsenal again. The payment of money to suicide bombers is miniscule and stopping that does nothing to combat terrorism. The money goes to all the families of all martyrs, not just suicide bombers. More martyrs are killed by Israeli troops, than die in suicide bombings. That money was wrong to be paid to the families of suicide bombers but it isn't an attack on anyone. The murals? He can paint murals all day long. That doesn't equal an attack, or reason to send people to die, and kill others. What he did against the Kurds was over and finished with. Saddam was a horrible dictator, who was cruel to his people, greedy and deserved to fall from power. He wasn't the worst dictator, the most oppressive, nor did he have the closest ties to terrorism. He in no way compares to anything Germany was doing WWII
Round and round we go. The preemptive doctrine, for whatever it is worth, is dead for all intents in purposes as Bush & Co. knowingly ignored real threats with proven ties to AL Qaeda that exceed anything Iraq ever did or non-mythical WMD programs (Saudi ARabia, Iran, Pakistan, North Korea, finishing the job in Afghanistan, etc.) to concentrate on a fake one, that had neither. Even worse, now we're hamstrung militarily due to the IRaq failure so we cant really preempt crap even if we wanted to. Of course, we've been saying this for months, nay, years now, since before the fact but whatever. For the record, even though I have spent a fair share of time correcting your misstatements, you have me confused with another party with respect to the Pearl Harbor thing.
