Jesus Christ this thread went Tea Party nutball. Oh, hey thumbs. Is the destruction of holy sites as an answer to acts of terrorism just your insane idea or is that the current Tea Party platform?
CW! I wondered when you show up with an obligatory insult rather than a reasonable response. BTW, in the tea parties we like to toss out ideas, bandy them about in a civil fashion, keep what floats and abandon what doesn't. (Pity, there are no "platforms" because the tea parties aren't a political party ... we are advocates of our political ideals, whether Republican or Democrat or Independent.) The policies the West employs in the Mideast are not working. Therefore, it is time to explore other approaches. I suggested a course. Now it is your turn to suggest a better one. If you do, I will adopt your plan or that of anybody else who comes up with a workable, realistic plan. At least my suggestion has the merit of using Muslim logic and tactics against them. The floor is now yours.
Yup, fighting terrorism with terrorism. What could possibly go wrong? You'll need a religion to justify it:
Laughable. You want to talk about reasonable responses when you advocate the following? You can't be ****ing serious. If blowing up religious sites is an idea bandied about at Tea Party meetings in a civil fashion then I think that pretty much speaks for its detached, crazy self. Yes you did suggest a course. One that would quite literally have us at war with a several hundred million Muslims rather than tens of thousands of terrorists. It's a brilliant strategy. Islamic extremism is solved through a religious reformation. We can't play any role in that however. That's a long term solution and the best solution. There really is no short term solution to what's going on in the Middle East thanks to 50 years of really shortsighted, idiotic US policy in that part of the world. I mean it's a genuinely star studded list of **** ups and screw ups that have led us to this point. Quite amazing, actually. The US is supposed to be this beacon of freedom and justice but we support dictators, killers, and fascists as long they're our dictators, killers, and fascists. I suppose the best short term solution is to stay true to the values that we think we have and stop betraying them.
Incidentally, didn't see this posted but it's indicative of how the US creates evil in its wake. The origins of ISIS: Finding the birthplace of jihad http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-origins-of-isis-finding-the-birthplace-of-jihad/ The Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) seemed to come from nowhere as it grabbed territory in Iraq and Syria. But where did it start? CBS News traced ISIS back to a U.S. military prison. Camp Bucca was known as the largest, and one of the toughest, American prisons in Iraq. As a vicious insurgency raged across the country, Bucca's numbers swelled. But there is growing evidence that the sprawling prison was also the birthplace of ISIS. According to a CBS News investigation, at least 12 of the top leaders of ISIS served time at Camp Bucca, including the man who would become the group's leader, Abu Bakr al Baghdadi. CBS News obtained photos of 10 of them in Bucca's yellow prison jumpsuits. At the time, few predicted that Baghdadi would become one of the world's most wanted men. He spent 10 months at Camp Bucca for an unknown crime. But during his time there, he would have rubbed shoulders with some of the most dangerous Islamic extremists. "I think it's undeniable that one of the main causes of ISIS's explosive growth after 2010 was Bucca. It's where they met, it's where they planned," said Patrick Skinner. Skinner is with the Soufan Group and was a former CIA case officer who spent time in Iraq. "Everybody could see what was happening but nobody could do anything about it," Skinner said. U.S. officials who worked at Bucca told us they were concerned that prisoners were becoming radicalized. The prison has been described as "a pressure cooker for extremism." And that wasn't the only problem. It was at Bucca that an unexpected and powerful alliance was formed between the Islamic extremists and the Ba'athists loyal to Saddam Hussein, who were angry at losing power. "You put them together and you get a mixing of organized military discipline with highly motivated, highly active ideological fervor, and the result is what we see have today," Skinner said. "I mean, there were other circumstances, but the toxic brew of Bucca started this recipe." The U.S. set up a rehabilitation program at Bucca to try to combat extremism, but some who worked there have said that it wasn't implemented effectively. At the time, Iraq was in a state of complete chaos. There were 100,000 prisoners in the country, and the U.S. was completely focused on the insurgency -- they weren't necessarily thinking of the future.
The US didn't make them evil. They were put in jail by the US because they were already evil. Are you advocating that they should have never come out?
Agree, although at the time I sided with the Bush the Younger and couldn't understand the position taken by Bush the Elder. But, what's done is done. Now we must look to solutions no one likes but could effectively bring an end to regional instability in the Middle East. The first question we should ask is: What will motivate "moderate" Muslims to get off the fence? Currently they have no real skin in the game. The Turks, Saudis, Jordanians, Kuwaitis, etc. are waiting for the West to do their dirty work. Why not? While we expend our national treasure (men, materiel and money), they sit back and wait to see how they can profit. Many of those "moderates" -- especially the Saudis -- actually fund the terrorists to keep them in somebody else's backyard. They have nothing to lose and everything to gain. So, what motivates them to enter the war with their national treasure so that we can leave that particular cesspool? If the Saudis are faced with the very real possibility that Mecca and Medina will be leveled, they could be leveraged into puttng up everything that is needed to fight Muslim terrorists. If we allow the Israelis to wire the Dome of the Rock with enough explosives to bring it down, they could have enough leverage to compromise with the Palestinians so these Muslims could have their own country with actual borders. The Palestinians would never attack Israel knowing that Jewish and Christian peoples very much want to rebuild the temple on its original Temple Mount site. (Remember, Muslims built the Dome of the Rock over the Jewish Temple without regard to how holy the site is to Jews and Christians alike. In messianic lore Jesus cannot return until the Temple is restored). In other words, the State of Israel is safe, albeit by hostage, and the Palestinians achieve their desire for the State of Palestine. The U.S.gets to withdraw honorably. Win-win-win. Some of you, like CometsWin, think I am just trolling because they disagree with my proposed solution. Yet, they come up with no proposals of their own (except downbytheriver). Mine is not a perfect solution by any stretch of the imagination. However, theoretically it might bring the warring sides to the peace table. Is that not what we all want, terrorist crazies aside? If everybody wins something but not everything, isn't that how compromises are forged? Please, I welcome any thoughts on how the moderate Muslims can be effectively engaged to end the terrible tragedy that is the Mideast.
I'd like to welcome thumbs to the Israeli security list. If you fly into Ben-Gurion airport, be prepared to give security personnel any email and social media passwords you have and be strip-searched. That's what they do as a matter of policy to people who make statements like yours. There have been no shortage of Christian extremists who have tried to blow up Al-Aqsa. The FBI even helped upgrade the security there to keep a close watch on the crazies. It might be one of the most watched places on Earth and they are very much on the lookout for high-on-Jesus sappers. Israelis treat anyone that even jokes about it accordingly: as a terrorist.
Thank goodness I have no desire to travel to any country in the Middle East or Africa. Italy is as close as I ever want to get. I am sure you are right about extremists of every religious variety who keep those countries high on their wish list. IMO it's the heat that puts the final touch on addled brains. The U.S. should not meddle in their affairs. That said, the entirety of my proposed solution rests on the West leaving the Middle East to its own devices. The Israelis can't be blamed for being overly zealous in protecting themselves, but, at the same time, they need to help the Palestinians create their own state. However, Keeping hundreds of millions of Muslims from attacking Israel has to be a priority for them. That is why I suggest the creation of a balance of power, i.e., creating a credible threat of blowing up shrines that the Muslims revere if they encroach on Israel. Perhaps in a thousand years they can all be friends as well as neighbors.
Muslims have already shown they have no regard for their own lives. They will increase jihad ten fold and never forgive the west for even threatening to do such a thing. WW3 will break out, except the us won't be able to fight properly as they hide behind civilians, women and no real designated war area can be established. NOTHING will change with your proposed method, except the fervor and intensity of suicide attacks. The only solution is to quit catering to the moderates and cut off the money supply. If the us doesn't have the balls to do this they will continue to deal with hostile attacks from ISIS to new groups cropping up. The 1% isn't willing to relinquish the power and stranglehold they have over the energy market. That in turn leads to discontent among our 99% and more violent discontent amongst their 99%. We have to change the culture of thought internally because the prosperous in the M.E. are not ballsy enough to do anything themselves.
there can never be peace with the moselms until they accept the lord jesus christ as their savior. and thumbs, your solution is elegant and it comes straight from the bible too (eye for a eye) so any true christian knows itll work
