1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

The Grass is Always GREENer

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by mikenm268, Jan 26, 2022.

  1. mikenm268

    mikenm268 Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2018
    Messages:
    257
    Likes Received:
    778
    This is not a ‘Jalen Green sucks and is a bust’ post. This is also not an ‘against Atlantic division teams in Thursday home games when the Rockets wear the City jerseys, Green has actually been quite good!’ post.

    Regardless of how lofty or measured your personal expectations for Jalen Green’s rookie season are, I think it is fair to say the latest slump has been disappointing and discouraging.

    For me, coupling that feeling with how strong the top of his draft class seems like it was/is becomes downright depressing. In a moment of self-loathing, hearing how the great others are doing, I looked at the stats of some of these other awesome rookies we could have had.

    Cade is shooting 40%/32%/85% with a -20 net rating in 37 games

    Suggs is shooting 36%/25%/76% with a -23 net rating in 27 games

    Green is shooting 38%/30%/83% with a -25 net rating in 32 games


    So as bad as it feels like Green is doing, he’s pretty much right there with the other two top guards from the class. There’s no magic to these particular stats, I picked them because Green’s dismal shooting slump and nothingness on defense are some of my biggest fears. Sometimes it feels like all the other rookies we didn’t draft are amazing and the Rox made a horrible decision. All I’m saying is that I’m reminded that even elite rookies have struggles, bad games, and bad stat lines. They are inefficient and they have to adjust.

    Thinking about that made me feel a little better about Green and his current struggles.

    Finally, whether you personally wanted to draft Green or not, I’d hope that we all care a hell of a lot more about the Rockets being successful (and I think most of us do) than being ‘right’ about Green. So let’s all remember to have patience with Green, let’s keep rooting for him to be successful, and let’s see how it turns out.
     
    #1 mikenm268, Jan 26, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2022
    Scarface, RCPM, Rockets FTW and 21 others like this.
  2. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    12,859
    Likes Received:
    6,092
    We don't need him to be great, or even good this year.

    When we do need his A-game, either he has found it by then or not. Therefore I am not discouraged. If two years from now he still looks like this, then I will be disappointed.
     
  3. Reeko

    Reeko Secretary of Defense for the Jabari Tribe
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    34,452
    Likes Received:
    95,855
    comparing season long stats, especially Green vs Cade, is fool’s gold

    Cade had no training camp and preseason and started HORRIBLY…he was shooting like 26% from the field on good volume for a minute, and people were starting to bring up bust talk…Green was very bad too, but unlike Green, Cade has had a long stretch of strong play that is still continuing…he had 34, 8, and 8 with 4 blocks and 2 steals yesterday against Denver

    since November 30th, Cade is averaging 18, 5, and 6 on 45/41/84 shooting splits…that is a 23 game stretch, and he’s showing no signs of slowing down…Green meanwhile is 14, 3, and 2 on 36/31/85 shooting splits

    there is simply no comparison between the 2 right now

    Cade contributes in all facets: scoring, shooting, passing, rebounding, defense

    Green? Only scoring, and that’s only when he’s hot

    the hope is that Jalen Green can progress offensively like Anthony Edwards has, but Edwards had an NBA body and was more skilled

    it will take awhile with Green, and that’s just when it comes to scoring…the rest of his game, who knows

    Pistons fans are incredibly happy with Cade, and they have another top lotto pick coming…if they hit on that too, their rebuild will skyrocket past ours

    coming into the season, my hope for Jalen Green as a rookie was 17, 4, and 3 on 41/34/78 splits and trash defense…he would have to go on a prolonged hot streak to reach that which isn’t out of the realm of possibility, but he looks lost right now while Cade has been found and is ballin
     
    noppeper, zeeshan2, DeBeards and 11 others like this.
  4. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2001
    Messages:
    18,947
    Likes Received:
    20,381
    Like I posted in the benching thread, I'm not worried about his cold shooting right now. There's been plenty of current stars that shot just as poorly as Green did when they were rookies. My concern is the defense he's apparently allergic to. You can be a very poor defender and still be impactful like Trae Young is but that means you're also going to have to be among the elite of elites on the offensive end of the floor.

    Not to put the blame entirely at the feet of the coaching staff (because we already know it's not a good group), but defense is all about effort and preparation. Even if Green doesn't have the innate defensive instincts of an average defender at least I'm hoping the coaching staff is working on basics with him during practice. But given the personnel involved (Silas, Hornacek, Lucas, Diop, etc.)...I don't know if they have enough experience/knowledge to help the kid.

    "But look at Porter! He's an elite defender! Surely the coaching staff knows what they're doing!" Well...if that's the case then they need to work their magic on Green, Wood, etc. as well.
     
    DeBeards and NewAge like this.
  5. groovemachine

    groovemachine Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    1,888
    Likes Received:
    2,544
    Green's potential depends on the work he does in the weight room. He can't finish through contact yet.
     
    DeBeards and D-rock like this.
  6. J.R.

    J.R. Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    95,568
    Likes Received:
    119,478
  7. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2001
    Messages:
    18,947
    Likes Received:
    20,381
    As a homeowner this is 10000% facts.
     
    DeBeards, D-rock and PeterKingX like this.
  8. vator

    vator Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2006
    Messages:
    6,457
    Likes Received:
    13,509
    I'm not really worried about Jalen Green...yet. He is one of the most athletically gifted players in the league so there will always be potential there. Potential goes both ways though because it means you aren't quite there yet. He has at least another year before it becomes alarming.

    I am however extremely annoyed that he has so many holes in his game. They don't even trust him enough to put the ball in his hands and yet they drafted him with a top 2 pick. Makes no sense to take a guard that high and intend to play him exclusively as an off-the-ball player in today's NBA unless said guard is an ELITE shooter. Being that he isn't exactly a marksman out there, the fact that they don't think he can dribble or pass effectively enough to even give him consistent reps working on that aspect of his game in order to get better is frustrating and I'm absolutely baffled by the draft selection. Strictly off-ball players don't hold that kind of value as top-tier stars in the NBA. If that is the plan for him, this was a bad pick.
     
    DeBeards, D-rock, PeterKingX and 3 others like this.
  9. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Easter Egg Hunter - Tell me why? نحن عائلة

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    70,094
    Likes Received:
    28,768
    Is it a mild green or a forest green?

     
  10. SamFisher

    SamFisher Virtuous

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    53,453
    Likes Received:
    27,864
    Considering they've finished in the lottery for 11 out of 13 seasons including this one - I'd almost feel bad if they weren't further along.
     
  11. Mathloom

    Mathloom Consumption is a waste of time.
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    15,529
    Likes Received:
    12,140
    Great thread. Jalen is going to be just fine specifically because we are taking the time to work on his fundamentals. He will get good at these things, he knew little about organized basketball before joining the Rockets. G League was a crash course at best. His progress has been great. He's still a poor defender but doesn't lack effort so I'm hopeful as long as he continues to develop at this pace.
     
    True Rocket, Sledge187 and mikenm268 like this.
  12. Reeko

    Reeko Secretary of Defense for the Jabari Tribe
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    34,452
    Likes Received:
    95,855
    they were getting picks in the 7-10 range or higher in the back end of the lottery until last year…they finally got a top 3 pick where the chances of getting a superstar are much higher and now they have a potential franchise player
     
  13. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2002
    Messages:
    22,613
    Likes Received:
    9,537
    So? That posters point still stands.
     
  14. intergalactic

    intergalactic Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Messages:
    1,212
    Likes Received:
    343
    I really hope you are right. But basketball is about smarts as much as it is about hard work. Some players are so savvy that they can walk into the league and have an immediate impact even without being able to shoot (Rondo, Kidd) . It is much less common to have a player that is physically gifted become smart. Sure, Jalen needs to learn the game. But he hasn't shown any signs that he is better at learning than anyone else.
     
    noppeper, D-rock and mikenm268 like this.
  15. DrNuegebauer

    DrNuegebauer Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2000
    Messages:
    10,440
    Likes Received:
    5,888
    But, but, BUT we have been in the lotto just once in a row. We should be allowed to nerdrage if the player we chose isn't the best player on planet earth already.

    You make a great point, and it is worth remembering that we had the longest active playoff streak in the entire NBA before last season (8 years in a row). To have accumulated the assets we currently is really well done, but it doesn't mean we're taking over the NBA tomorrow...
     
    conquistador#11 likes this.
  16. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2001
    Messages:
    18,947
    Likes Received:
    20,381
    It's always fun to turn on the hindsight vision and see what could have been:

    2010: Selected Greg Monroe 7th, passing up Gordon Hayward (9th), Paul George (10th)
    2011: Selected Brandon Knight 8th, passing up Klay Thompson (11), Kawhi Leonard (14th)
    2012: Selected Andre Drummond 9th, passing up ....well no one not note really so kudos to them
    2013: Selected KCP 8th, passing up CJ McCollum (9th), Giannis (15th)
    2014 no 1st round selection
    2015: Selected Stanley Johnson 8th, passing up Myles Turner (11th), Devin Booker (13th)
    2016: Selected Henry Ellenson 18th, passing up Malik Beasley (19th), Caris LeVert (20th)
    2017: Selected Luke Kennard 12th, passing up Donovan Mitchell (13th), Bam Adebayo (14th)
    2018: no 1st round selection
    2019: Selected Sekou Doumbouya 15th, passing up Matiss Thybulle (20th), Brandon Clarke (21st)
    2020: Selected Killian Hayes 7th, passing up Tyrese Haliburton (12th)

    A few observations:

    Detroit, for some reason, avoids drafting guards. Like looking at the list above they had an aging Rip Hamilton, a 24 year old Rodney Stuckey, Tracy McGrady's corpse, and Ben Gordon in 2010. None of those players (save maybe for Stuckey and banking on his potential) should have made you avoid drafting a wing talent like Hayward or Gordon. Keep in mind that their front court still had Ben Wallace and Jason Maxiell so they weren't in dire need of a big man. You then had the same roster the next year sans Hamilton but decided to go with Brandon Knight instead of a sharpshooter like Thompson to fill Rip's void?

    Indiana should thank them. If it weren't for Detroit Indiana might have missed out on Paul George, Kawhi (even though his time as a Pacer was short lived), and Myles Turner. Didn't yield championships for Indy but I'd say they've experienced more highs than lows in comparison to Detroit.

    Luke Kennard over Donovan Mitchell really set that franchise back relative to where both players were selected.
     
    zeeshan2, DeBeards, Easy and 4 others like this.
  17. Reeko

    Reeko Secretary of Defense for the Jabari Tribe
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    34,452
    Likes Received:
    95,855
    How? They were trying to compete doing things like trading for Blake Griffin and had a vet heavy team until recently. They finally decided to embrace the tank once Blake became washed due to injury. Before that they won 41, 39, 37, and 44 games and made the playoffs twice.
     
  18. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    7,066
    Likes Received:
    10,232
    Thought this was a Harden not happy in Bronx hit piece
     
  19. SamFisher

    SamFisher Virtuous

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    53,453
    Likes Received:
    27,864
    My only point was to feel sorry for Pistons fans - but maybe they deserved it after the Malice at the Palace brawl.
     
  20. mikenm268

    mikenm268 Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2018
    Messages:
    257
    Likes Received:
    778
    Ha, no hit piece, just one man’s emotional journey to acceptance of Jalen Green’s season thus far. This is a safe space to share your fears and disappointments on all things Green.
     
    vator likes this.

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now