When you step back in context I think Stone has had significant wins in his short tenure for sure... but holy cow yesterday is going to overshadow everything else. I think it’s mostly a credibility issue more than anything. Stone went out of his way to create media hype that the Rockets had something they didn’t actually have and it made him look like a poser. So while there are these wins this year that we must applaud him for, it just won’t overshadow the narratives ... some of which he’s personally responsible for. Also the fact that he didn’t do a presser like Morey always would explaining the rationale is telling about not just how bad the day was but Stones personality as well... which is not what fans ever want. We also need to be fair too about how Stone will be picking up the pieces of the first Westbrook cluster F for years to come which he might have had nothing to do with in his role at the time. Still... if there’s a chance to grab a top notch GM this off-season I hope like hell Tillman does it but doubt he will. Fans should demand Hinkie back imo. The only one who can do what needs to be done.
Anything to improve tanking while playing young guys, so agree with most of it. The only really negative was the expectations set by the Rockets through national mouth pieces...the goal was NoDipo and we got it. I don’t watch games anyway this year, only highlights so with Olynyk’s contract expiring I don’t have to see him next year when I might watch again. Stone traded for expiring contracts so it’s all good.
Here's the half glass full take. We got nothing back for oladipo, the market wasn't there for him. That's over and done with. You want to look at all our moves in totality as an entire strategy. We gave up nothing and got kpj. Would it make you feel better if they traded oladipo for kpj instead? Looking at the strategy in totality, the second Harden and Westbrook demanded a trade the team had to change directions. In the end we got Wood, kpj, kmj, tate, Portland frp, Washington frp for eating walls contract another two years, Milwaukee frp, 3 nets frp, 4 nets swaps, mia swap. Forget any one particular deal. The new front office was responsible for all of the above and we are headed in the right direction after the disastrous cp3 Westbrook trade that could have crippled the franchise for years.
You are right but I dunno which good GMs are available. I think Stone is decent for a first year GM I wanna give him a chance to grow and get better considering the work he put in yr 1. If you remember Morey also made a couple of mistakes in beginning getting guys like Greene and trading for the busts of Harden's draft class. Plus, Fertita aint gonna fire the dude he prob signed a multi year deal.
I'm not fine with it, though. I was very critical of it at the time, and I'm no less happy about that decision now. Stone gambled on that part of the trade and lost in a big way. I also recognize that there was no way I was going to be satisfied with any Harden trade. Plus, as I've pointed out in this thread, yesterday didn't change anything about the LeVert swap. It's no more or less terrible than the trade from two months ago. But I also don't think that having Caris LeVert on this team puts the Rockets significantly closer to being a contender than they already are. Caris LeVert doesn't move any needles for me.
I think maybe the reason yesterday wasn't quite the disaster for me as it was for others is that I don't view not having Caris LeVert as some huge loss. Like I 100% agree with the sentiment that having LeVert would be better than having Oladipo. He unquestionably has more value, and he's younger. But if they had Caris LeVert right now, would the Rockets be in significantly better shape? No. LeVert is a solid player, but he does little to help the rebuild in the long run. He's 26 and he'll be 27 next year, he's played more than 57 games once in his entire career and his peak is averaging an inefficient 19, 4 and 4 over 45 games last season. Statistically, he's never had a season where he posted WS/48 over .8, a BPM over 0.2 (the other four seasons were negatives) or a VORP over 0.6. His scoring efficiency has actually declined since his rookie year, and he hasn't has a TS% over 52.5% since 2017. LeVert is not going to suddenly be a 22/6/5 guy with elite efficiency, making All-Star games and changing the fate of the Rockets. And you can be upset because of the loss of value; I get that. Having LeVert would be more valuable than what Houston got for Oladipo yesterday. But how valuable? Looking at the trades that happened yesterday, Gordon feels like the guy closest in value to LeVert, and he netted Orlando a high first rounder from Denver, an overpaid role player on the decline in Gary Harris and Hampton, a rookie who has scored a whopping 64 points in his NBA career so far. And Gordon has more value than LeVert, IMO. Having Caris LeVert doesn't move the needle for this franchise. It would have given the Rockets another quality asset, which would certainly be welcome. But his value isn't such that I think he was worth a higher lottery pick or multiple first rounders that were likely to be franchise altering guys. Also, as others have pointed out, LeVert might hurt you if you're trying to tank and lose games. And if they ultimately get a top 3-4 draft pick, hopefully the player they draft will be the franchise changer the Rockets are looking for.
Dude come on bruh. “”You’re assuming the Rockets leaked that”; who else would leak that the Rockets had good deals lined up? Who does that help? And barely twelve hours after Woj and Windhorst were on a live saying that the Rockets may get some seconds, if they had a first available they would have done a deal already and laughing at us? That was absolutely a pr leak by the Rockets and it blew up in their face.
You’re only worth what someone is willing to pay. it is what it is. We got what Dipo was worth. It was a dumb move from the beginning bringing him hear. So the fact that we got “something” for a dude that was walking anyway is the only thing I’m focused on. More importantly....Stone (if you or your staff are reading this) you BETTER have a plan sir. This thing can get ugly for you over the next few years....especially if you don’t strike a top 4 pick
OK. Sure. But how many times did we see leaks from Morey's front office that amounted to nothing? I'm a huge Morey fan, but the man loved leaking rumors that went nowhere. That's why trade deadlines have been so disappointing for this team for the last decade. Tons of smoke and no fire. And again, I never had massive expectations for the Oladipo trade at the deadline. A first and a young player would have been nice. But it would have been a low first and a project, not a lottery pick and a young stud. I was disappointed they didn't make a move for a younger player like Gordon or Markkanen, but as Dipo almost certainly wouldn't have been headed to Orlando or Chicago and would have had to be part of a larger deal with other assets involved, I'm not going to blame the lack of that secondary trade on the return they got from Miami.
I understand where you're coming from with this, but it feels a bit knee jerky to me, and it's not especially realistic. Stone was dealt an unfathomably bad hand in his first year as GM. I'm not sure a "better" GM would have gotten the Rockets significantly more for Harden or whether he would have kept LeVert or not. The man has made some gambles, some of which have paid off and some of which haven't. The LeVert for Oladipo swap obviously being his biggest failure. I'm by no means one of those fans who only looks at his teams, players and staff through rose-colored glasses. I'm as critical as anyone, and Stone has done things worthy of criticism. But the man isn't Bill O'Brien. He found legitimate value in the offseason and put multiple young pieces in place that could help jumpstart a rebuild. And he's done an admirable job of "picking up the pieces" of the Westbrook trade, as you mention. How many more first rounders do the Rockets have over the next three years than when they started the season? I at least think he's earned the right to get a fair shake for a few seasons before getting canned in favor of a different GM, and I assure you the Rockets aren't going to fire him less than a year into his tenure in the role.
Well, if Oladipo was healthy and played well we would have had a different outcome. Stone gambled and it didn't pay off. He got useful depth and didn't tack on a bunch of salary... We aren't "worse" off than keeping Oladipo....
Well, if things break up in Brooklyn after next year those picks could look really nice... especially for trading right as Wall's enormous expiring contract comes due... Seems like a 2 year turn around...
that glass half full better have Everclear in it. We all just need to deal with the fact that we lost James for a handful of picks that may never amount to anything. It is what it is. Process and deal however you need to, but postulating some crazy ideas to sugar coat the event is not doing anyone any favors. It will forever be brought up in the "worst trades ever" debates.
Which trade? The Harden trade or yesterday's trade? Also, what exactly have I said that you'd consider "crazy?" Because I feel like every point I've made in this thread has been pretty much common sense.
As much fun as I've had in the past week with the Victor Oladipo experiment I can't judge Stone's work until we see what happens in the draft. So far, he's shown competency despite not netting the mythical "Young All Star" in return for Harden. The Tucker trade wasn't bad given the various factors (Tucker's age, he's on the last year of his current deal, he's severely limited offensively, Stone didn't acquire/sign him). The Oladipo trade...I've posted enough about this but the gist is that Stone controlled his own destiny, gambled a bit when he traded for Vic, and lost when he couldn't extract more value out of Vic. His skill as a drafter will be more important because free agents aren't going to put Houston on their list of destinations unless Fertitta overpays. It's paramount that Stone hits on a few of his draft picks, otherwise, the short-term rebuild Tilman envisioned won't/can't happen.
It all goes back to the James trade .. everything. The way the franchise maneuvered it appeared that Vic was the main target for James. Ditched Levert. Ditched Allen and landed Oladipo. So in essence the only thing the team has to look forward to is the hope that the Nets win a ring or two and then blow up and we somehow luck into another batch of high draft picks 6 years from now. That's a hell of an optimistic view of patience to me. I'm not going to disagree with independent bullet points of yours because they are not generally "wrong", Im trying to encapsulate several threads of doom and gloom AND sugar coated fairy dust to try and remain realistic and take this year for what it is - a throwaway in hopes that it will only be ONE YEAR in the dumpster. I'm crossing my fingers till they snap at the joint because it could easily go for multiple years if the cards don't fall right. Im all for opening up more playing time for the youngsters, but IMO Vic played better with them than Wall and there is still going to be static in the way of true development when Wall is going to play hero ball and make everyone else watch him clank shot after shot. But I digress......
