I will also like to point out that there is still a lingering Victorian-era belief, as borne out by Durvasa's description of "ambiguous" situations, that sex is something that men do to women and not something that both person engages into as if women are passive dolls. Hence, Durvasa's question about "not making your will known" about two adults engaging in sex.
So you kids are convinced the alleged assailant is not guilty because the authority cleared him, but thinks Zimmerman is still guilty even though the authority cleared him?
A woman has the power to say no, but a man has the power to not listen and force himself on her regardless. The woman may feel like she was at fault for not struggling against him harder, or she may feel embarrassed to confront him about it especially if he is/was a friend, or the trauma of the situation may make her block out what happened for a time, etc.. Consequentially, she doesn't immediately come forward with charges of rape, or she doesn't immediately recognize what happened to her as rape. I don't see this as treating the woman like a doll. Its treating her as a human being with complex, sometimes conflicting emotional responses to a sexual assault. Another comment. You mentioned something about her professing her love subsequently. I suppose you are referring to her use of "I love you" in her text messages. I'm sure you are aware that girls commonly say this among friends in a casual manner. In my opinion, she was trying to be friendly with the guy. I don't put any more into it than that.
No, but they say it to their friends. It appears that at that stage, she was still trying to be friendly with the guy, whatever her private thoughts on him may have been. He had wished her a happy birthday the evening before, after they hadn't spoken in a month. She responds the next morning with "I love you Paul, Where are you ??" Now, you tell me. Does that "I love you" convey "I am in love with you" or "Hey thanks for the birthday wishes, you're so kind."?
Who cares. It certainly doesn't convey "you raped me". And that you cannot get that through your head is a real head-scratcher.
Nope. What I said earlier after reading ATW's article was she may or may not have been raped (I don't know), but she appears to have lied about or exaggerated the violent nature of it. I suppose she would have done so to draw more attention to what happened to her and/or try to get more support behind her projects on the topic of rape culture. If she was willing to wage this campaign against the guy simply because he didn't maintain a relationship with her (I'm not ruling that out as a possibility), then I think lunatic is a fair label.
So you think there is such a thing as "rape without a violent nature"? Watch durvasa ignore this post...he has been doing that - says it could be either way, but ignores the posts which present facts that contradict that opinion.
As an aside from your irrelevant opinion court, I'd like to point out that yes, there is. Statutory rape for one. Rape when somebody is incapacitated (asleep, drugged or unconscious) is another. Any non-consent really. https://www.rainn.org/get-information/types-of-sexual-assault/was-it-rape The FBI defines rape as follows-- nowhere in there is the clause "and also there must be violence committed to establish non-consent." http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/maryville You can go back to your opinions that wouldn't hold up in any court of law now.
I meant she may have lied about the rape or she may have exaggerated the violent nature of it. I understand what you're trying to say here. How could I not?. A girl is raped, one of the most horrible, violent crimes you can perpetrate. She must be outraged/horrified over what happened. She wouldn't be able to even look at the guy, let alone talk to him, without feeling strong emotions of hatred, disgust, and/or fear. Of course, that's the initial expectation I would have if I learn a girl is raped. But how do victims react to rape when its someone they were close friends with? Might there be some mixed feelings in that case -- a desire to put the incident past them and pretend it didn't happen? Could unease with the encounter gradually grow and grow as the friendship withers away, until they realize something horrible really did happen, months later? Sometimes, years later? Yeah, I could see that.
Hmmm, I didn't realize I was doing that. You made the same point, which I just responded to. Though, probably not to your satisfaction. That's how just how these kind of conversation go, it seems.
Thanks for the response. durvasa, you know I respect you as a poster. It's just that I don't really know what you are arguing here. If you look at the overall constellation of facts, it is just overwhelmingly more likely that this girl simply has a screw loose than that she actually got raped in any way, but only realized it months later. Even in that scenario, what is more likely, that she actually got raped but only realized it months later or that she convinced herself months later that she got raped? Anyway, here's one for the intern: http://infinityhousemagazine.com/2014/12/11/non-violent-rape-exist/
Fiona Elvines from Rape Crisis sums it up quite simply, “”We always say there’s no hierarchy of rape. It’s not about trying to rank these things. Rape is a form of sexual violence. Some have additional physical violence. But even when physical violence isn’t needed to force the sexual violence on someone [such as when the victim is drunk or drugged], it’s still a form of violence.” https://diahannerhiney.wordpress.co...pe-vs-rape-surely-rape-is-still-rape-isnt-it/ I agree with this lady. It's quite hilarious to see the intern try to talk to a lawyer as if the intern actually had superior knowledge of anything.
Of those two choices, maybe the second is more likely. But it is not so unusual for rape victims to not be immediately aware that they were raped, to only come to that realization after some time has passed. The possibility I have in mind is that the encounter was ambiguously coercive (which Cathy Young suggested as a possibility in that article). And then, the feelings of unease Sulkowicz had with it didn't just turn on like a switch months later, as you're suggesting, but rather gradually built up within her. Her correspondences with the accused became more and more infrequent in the subsequent months. Maybe her feelings of being raped grew more pronounced as her contact with him reduced -- increasingly, she views him less as a friend she hangs out with and more as that guy who did that thing to her. And, again, I'm not saying the above is what I think happened, but only that it might have possibly happened. Its also possible that nothing wrong happened that night, and she just turned on him for some reason like spurned love.
The ONLY scenarios where someone can be raped without being immediately aware of it if if they are incapacitated in some way be it drugged or whatever, or if they are underage and they have sex with someone that turns out to be older that lied about it. There is no other scenario where someone can be raped without knowing it at the time.
